From: Alexander Sheppard (alexandersheppard@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Nov 12 2002 - 08:07:07 MST
"If the word is to have any meaning then libertarian communists (the mind
boggles) want to give individuals a choice, become a capitalist if you want
to or join a socialistic commune"
I don't understand what you mean "become a capitalist". If "becoming a
capitalist" was a decision that didn't affect other people, then I would
entirely agree with you--but it is. "Becoming a capitalist" affects other
people because it means that you have control of a certain amount of
resources by force, that other people can't have unless they are useful to
you. I mean, as far as I can see, this is like saying that a society which
doesn't allow chattel slavery is intolerant because it doesn't allow people
who aren't slaves to become slaves if they want to, or slavemasters.
"but I have a hunch that's not what you had in mind. It's interesting that
capitalists have no fear of competing head to head with socialists because
they know they have a better economic system and will always win in a fair
fight".
You can't have a "fair fight" if the two systems don't agree on what that
consists of. You can't have socialism in a capitalist society, and you can't
have capitalism in a socialist society. The principles of one necessarily
conflict with the other, basically, as far as I can see, about what actually
constitutes "stealing" and "threats". Socialism acknolwedges the threat of
enforced poverty and starvation to be real threats--capitalism only
acknolwedges the point of the gun.
>the state is necessary to defend private property against being
>redistributed in ways which reflect the needs of the group
"Other things than the state could and I think should defend private
property, things like private protection agencies."
Private protection agencies? Look, I mean, if your private protection agency
is defending the control of someone who has mass wealth against a great mass
of poor and impoverished people who do not have access to that wealth thanks
to the private protection agency, that's just a state, as far as I can see.
That's what a state is. And if your desires are motivated by "personal
profit", that is, the centralized control of resources by force under
yourself, then the most logical way to increase that profit is not to obey
the rules of the market at all--it's to get your "private protection agency"
riled up enough that they just kill people who don't work hard enough for
you. If you enough resources under your control, you can do that under the
"laws of the market" anyway by enforcing their starvation or exposure to the
elements, but if you're willing to do something that monstrous, you probably
don't care, and you'll just do the most efficient thing, which is putting a
gun to someone's head.
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