From: gts (gts_2000@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Nov 12 2002 - 08:42:17 MST
Lee, this is a partial repost of a message that you seemed to have
missed. I see that you answered a similar message, which I addressed to
someone else, so this is something of a combination repost and reply,
designed to cover the same issues.
Lee Corbin wrote:
>> Who decides if my backup is the same person I was when I
>> died? And based on what criteria is that decision made?
>
> Who determines what constitutes a "high degree of similarity" depends
> on circumstances.
Sorry but "depends on circumstances" is not a clear answer. I've already
specified the circumstances in my thought experiment. Would the Supreme
Court decide? If so, based on what criteria?
> Normally, as for example between people who know
> each other quite well, other people decide. (Quoted from my
> previous post.)
Which people? I picked a politician example because politicians
generally make their views a matter of public record. In my thought
experiment, the American public is aware of my previous position on Iraq
*and* aware that I changed my position just prior to the Senate vote. Is
the public going to accept your view that my backup's vote on the issue
is really my vote? Perhaps those in favor of my former position would go
along with your assertion that my backup must be accepted as me, but
what of those in favor of my latter position? They will argue, rightly,
that my backup is not an accurate backup of the person who would have
voted on the issue and that his vote must be considered invalid. How
will you answer them?
It's hardly satisfactory to sweep the issue under the rug by decreeing a
new law ("Corbin's law"). You need to justify such a law.
> Are you asking whether the person who got himself backed up survived?
I'm asking why the American people should accept my survival as fact (as
you would have it be) given that my backup holds to a different position
than I had at my time of death on this one political question. My backup
may be identical to me at my time of death in every respect save this
one single opinion on the Iraq question. Yet this single difference of
opinion between me and my backup will affect the entire world.
> Either legally the senator can claim to be the same person or
> he cannot.
How would a court decide if his claim to be me were valid? Wouldn't the
judge look at the public record and hear the testimonies of those who
knew me well and who interacted with me after my last backup, and see
that my restored backup has a different position than that held by me at
the time of my death, and therefore rule that my backup is not actually
me? Of course she would!
> So, gts, suppose a senator has brain damage. Who decides
> whether he can finish his term. The fate of the world depends
> on this. YOU MUST ANSWER THE QUESTION! WHO DECIDES???
If it were a matter of public dispute then I believe a judge
would decide competency based on the testimony of expert witnesses,
namely the testimony of the senator's physicians and/or physicians
appointed by the court.
> I have no idea who decides in this hypothetical situation.
> Perhaps if you tell me the political situation in greater
> detail, I could guess. Right now, my guess would be "the
> Senate decides".
The Senate is divided down the middle on this issue. Those in favor of
my publicly announced position at my time of death would be inclined to
argue that my backup is not me because he holds to my previous position.
Those in favor of my old publicly announced position might try to argue
that my backup is really me.
> But my guess is also that I am missing your point.
The point is to show you what a political and logical mess you have
created for the American people by asserting that the delayed backup
Senator has the same identity as the deceased Senator.
> The answer to this in general cannot be a "yes" or "no"
Sorry but the American people demand a yes or no answer to the question
of whether my backup is me or not. If yes then his vote is valid. If no
then it's invalid.
> It's a matter of degree.
No, it's not a matter of degree. Either my backup's vote on the Iraq
issue should be considered valid or else it should be considered
invalid.
> If a person X at time t1 gets himself
> backed up, and then becomes person Y at time t2, the intelligent
> question is, "to what degree is X the same person as Y?"
No. I believe the only intelligent answer is that X does not equal Y.
One might then discuss similarities between X and Y, but it would be
irrational to say X is Y.
> But I think that you believe the answer to that question to be
> zero if t2-t1 > 10^-43 seconds. Is that right?
Yes, X would equal Y if there were no difference between X and Y, which
for dynamically changing humans can happen only if X was copied within
one unit of planck time such that every atom and particle of Y is in the
same quantum state as those of X. X would then diverge from Y in the
next unit of planck time, such that X would no longer equal Y.
-gts
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