From: Sarah Marr (skm4@dial.pipex.com)
Date: Tue Aug 11 1998 - 02:13:19 MDT
At 11:50 10/08/98 -0700, Robin Hanson wrote:
<snip>
>I agree many of the early posters could have been more "civilized",
>but I've actually been more surprised by many of the reactions.
Certainly, this is what caused my reaction to the initial postings in this
debate: not the content per se, but the mode of expression chosen (which I
selected to interpret at face value, rather than perform a 'benefit of the
doubt' analysis, I must confess).
<snip>
>Yes, this topic may well make the few women on this list feel
>uncomfortable. So let's all try to make it clear: We treasure women,
>and not just or even primarily as potential dates. (And I for one wish
>the female lurkers would speak up more often.)
Speaking up for once (and I should say at this point that my usual lurking
is a function of time-constraint rather than apathy), I'm concerned about
your use of 'we' in this last paragraph, Robin. Personally, I do feel that
the majority of people on this list value women, but I'm not sure that
allows the use of the global 'we'. In the spirit of your post, however, I
agree that the approach to the minority should be one designed to engender
understanding and a positive way forward.
>But let's also remember: male pain is real, and deserves attention, even
>if it isn't articulate pretty or articulate. Let's acknowledge that
>on average male nerds, especially extropian male nerds, are less desired
>by women. Then let's try to understand more about why, and see if we
>can help.
Perhaps a problem to be addressed before considering the real issue here is
what we mean by, 'nerd'. I think nerd has connotations of appearance,
social skills and psychological make-up, each of which contribute in their
own way to the attractiveness, or otherwise, of the 'nerd'; it is also a
fairly gender-specific category, which is ex necessite qualified with
'female' when used to describe a woman. I don't recall ever having met a
female nerd, and I'm not qualified to talk about the male nerd's
attractiveness or otherwise, but perhaps by breaking down the qualities
that create the category 'nerd' others may be able to provide some insight
in to the problems which they are expressing. And helping others to
overcome their own perceived limitations seems to me to be an very
Extropian thing to do.
Sarah
(www.seraph.org)
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