From: Robin Hanson (hanson@econ.berkeley.edu)
Date: Tue Aug 11 1998 - 12:04:54 MDT
Sarah wrote:
>>... So let's all try to make it clear: We treasure women,
>>and not just or even primarily as potential dates. ...
>
>... I'm concerned about your use of 'we' in this last paragraph,
>Robin. Personally, I do feel that the majority of people on this
>list value women, but I'm not sure that allows the use of the
>global 'we'.
I didn't mean "we" as in "every one of us", but in a more majoritarian
or average sense. There may be people here who don't value women here.
But I doubt they'll speak up and say so, so we probably won't know.
>Perhaps a problem to be addressed before considering the real issue here is
>what we mean by, 'nerd'. I think nerd has connotations of appearance,
>social skills and psychological make-up, each of which contribute in their
>own way to the attractiveness, or otherwise, of the 'nerd'; ... I don't
>recall ever having met a female nerd, and I'm not qualified to talk about
>the male nerd's attractiveness or otherwise, but perhaps by breaking down
>the qualities that create the category 'nerd' others may be able to provide
>some insight in to the problems which they are expressing.
I'm willing to discuss this, but first let me plead for lots of
tolerance in such discussions. It is way too easy to interpret
honest ideas and opinions as insults to a gender or some other subgroup.
(Sarah's sarcastic reply to Randy's suggestion of gender correlations
in receptivity to radical ideas seems an example of this.)
Regarding nerds, I suspect a single term is used because there is in
fact a strong correlation among various attributes. And I suspect the
term is used mostly for males both because those attributes aren't
considered to be such negatives for females, and because men are more
likely to exibit those traits.
I was once (and may still be) a nerd, and for me the essense of it is
focusing on one's own feelings and ideas, relative to caring what other
people think. I didn't care much how I looked, didn't care much about how
others looked, and didn't much respect people who cared a lot. The same
went for sports, showing how strong or tough you are, showing dominance
via insults and malicious gossip, getting along by agreeing with people,
etc. I got along fine with people who were like me, but others saw me as
weak, easily dominated, unattractive, and socially ignorant. They did
admit though that I was very capable regarding what I cared about: ideas.
I've read, and my observations seem to confirm, that women are more
inclined (either by genetics or socialization) to get along socially,
while men care more about being respected than being liked. And women
seem to value strong socially dominant men more than men value these
traits in women. Given these correlations, the "nerd" phenomena makes
sense to me.
Robin Hanson
hanson@econ.berkeley.edu http://hanson.berkeley.edu/
RWJF Health Policy Scholar, Sch. of Public Health 510-643-1884
140 Warren Hall, UC Berkeley, CA 94720-7360 FAX: 510-643-2627
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