From: Technotranscendence (neptune@mars.superlink.net)
Date: Tue Jun 04 2002 - 05:39:45 MDT
On Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:26 AM Damien Broderick
d.broderick@english.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
>>which *part* of Ayn Rand's basic philosophy (not personality,
>>philosophy) do you despise? Is it her rationalism? Her anti-religious
>>views? Her realism? Her optimism ("benevolent universe")? Her defense
of
>>freedom?
>
> Let me answer that equally rhetorically. Which part of, say, THE BOOK
OF
> MORMON and Mormon practise (pace, John Grigg) do you despise, Max?
Let me answer for Max: the "paragraphs" beginning with "And so it came
to pass.":) It's sort of like a drum beat of poor prose. I'm not
saying Rand was an excellent prose writer here, but _The Book of Mormom_
was much less a treat to read -- what little I managed to get through.
> Commenting on the defects of Rand's fiction per se is a somewhat
separate
> issue. However, if your list included THE BOOK OF MORMON for all those
> bracing qualities it contains among its absurdities, fabrications and
the
> thought-policing character of its disciples, I'd be equally taken
aback.
Understood, though I think the Rand novel is a bit more in line with
Extropianism because of its focus on a rational value system -- even if
Rand doesn't succeed here -- and many of the values held seem to be
Extropian ones: rationality, productiveness, life (over death), activity
(over passivity), nonconformity (over tradition or convention), and the
like.
That sad, I did not like the novel. It's way too long for me. There
are too many speeches and some of the ideas (Galt's engine) and scenes
(people waxing philosophic at cocktail parties, how Galt is rescued by
Dagny) I found a bit goofy.
I also agree with you, there's a tendency in Rand for all the heroes to
think alike. Yeah, they do have disagreements -- like between Dagny and
Galt -- but these range within the ambit of a shared worldview. The
heroes are merely disagreeing on the finer points. (I bring this up
more as a jab at those who point out the main conflict in her novels are
between the heroes. That's true, but it's more like an argument going
on inside one mind than an fight between minds.)
I did like _Anthem_ and her other two novels -- though _Anthem_ is,
IMHO, a rewrite of Zamyatin's _We_. I'm sure I'm not the first person
to notice this. (I recommend _We_ and wish it were more widely read.)
It would be interesting to see _We_ and _Anthem_ both considered
alongside other dystopian novels. (I once dreamed of writing such a
comparison, but it's beyond my meager skills.)
>>Do you mean replacing Rand's own writing
>>with philosophers and sociologists who have been influenced by her
>>work? If that's what you mean, I think that might be workable for the
>>reading list.
>
> I can't make recommendations of this sort, of course, since I'm not an
> extropian and in any case I find much of Rand's comprehensive world
view
> simplistic, often untrue to reality, often antagonistic to values I
regard
> as crucial to mature human development and enriched human community.
But
> really, I'm not here now to gore anyone's oxen, and I'm not really
> interested in discussing the details of Rand's strange picture of the
world.
Oh. I hope you would elaborate which parts of her worldview are thus
and also whether any reconstruction of her views are possible that would
not have those qualities. My view is that one need not accept all of
Rand's system -- over and above figuring out where the system begins and
she ends -- to use some of it for the better. In the same way, I don't
need to accept all of Einstein's ideas -- certainly not his views of
politics or quantum mechanics -- to use some of them.
Cheers!
Dan
http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/
The Heart asks Pleasure -- first --
And then -- excuse from Pain --
And then -- those little Anodynes
That deaden suffering --
And then -- to go to sleep --
And then -- if it should be
The will of its Inquisitor
The privilege to die --
--Emily Dickinson
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