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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:18:52 +0100
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From: Wladimir <laanwj@gmail.com>
To: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc
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On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> wrote:
> Go straight to uBTC. Humans and existing computer systems handle numbers
> to the left of the decimals just fine (HK Dollars, Yen). The opposite is
> untrue (QuickBooks really does not like 3+ decimal places).
>
I have used mBTC for a long time and never had cope with more than two
numbers to the right of the decimal (which is the norm in euro countries).
Sure, if we have another 100x+ price increase then =CE=BCBTC is a better pi=
ck,
but right now that would give us *intimidating large numbers*.
Though I have always liked the idea of moving to mBTC or =CE=BCBTC, I want =
the
community to take initiative before switching over the default in the
reference client. The alternative units should first be sufficiently known
to the user base.
It has been possible for a long time to set the reference client to those
units (and all mentions of monetary value are accompanied with a unit).
Maybe we should stealthily collect people's settings and switch over once a
majority switched *ducks*.
Or, more seriously, maybe add a popup when upgrading the first time to 0.9
with an explanation where people can reconsider their unit setting?
Wladimir
> - Jeff
> On Nov 14, 2013 4:40 PM, "Mark Friedenbach" <mark@monetize.io> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> For this reason I'm in favor of skipping mBTC and moving straight to
>> uBTC. Having eight, or even five decimal places is not intuitive to
>> the average user. Two decimal places is becoming standard for new
>> national currencies, and we wouldn't be too far from human scale
>> everyday numbers: 25.00uBTC ~=3D $0.01 currently. And I don't think very
>> many people on this list would consider bitcoin overvalued in the long
>> term perspective.
>>
>> Better to go through a confusing renumbering only once.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On 11/14/13 12:01 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
>> > ... I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to change the
>> > base unit in such an established system. There is no easy way to
>> > do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's worth...
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>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
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>
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> DreamFactory - Open Source REST & JSON Services for HTML5 & Native Apps
> OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access
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--bcaec51a7782af483804eb3202d0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Jeff Garzik <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jgarzik@bitpay.com" target=3D"_blank">jgarzik@b=
itpay.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><p>Go straight to uBTC. Humans and existing computer syste=
ms handle numbers to the left of the decimals just fine (HK Dollars, Yen). =
The opposite is untrue (QuickBooks really does not like 3+ decimal places).=
</p>
</blockquote><div>I have used mBTC for a long time and never had cope with =
more than two numbers to the right of the decimal (which is the norm in eur=
o countries). Sure, if we have another 100x+ price increase then =CE=BCBTC =
is a better pick, but right now that would give us *intimidating large numb=
ers*.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Though I have always liked the idea of moving to =
mBTC or =CE=BCBTC, I want the community to take initiative before switching=
over the default in the reference client. The alternative units should fir=
st be sufficiently known to the user base.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It has been possible for a long time to set the referen=
ce client to those units (and all mentions of monetary value are accompanie=
d with a unit).</div><div>Maybe we should stealthily collect people's s=
ettings and switch over once a majority switched *ducks*.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Or, more seriously, maybe add a popup when upgrading th=
e first time to 0.9 with an explanation where people can reconsider their u=
nit setting?</div><div><br></div><div>Wladimir</div><div><br></div><div>
=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-le=
ft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Jeff</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Nov 14, 2013 4:40 PM, "Mark Friedenbach&=
quot; <<a href=3D"mailto:mark@monetize.io" target=3D"_blank">mark@moneti=
ze.io</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-col=
or:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
For this reason I'm in favor of skipping mBTC and moving straight to<br=
>
uBTC. Having eight, or even five decimal places is not intuitive to<br>
the average user. Two decimal places is becoming standard for new<br>
national currencies, and we wouldn't be too far from human scale<br>
everyday numbers: 25.00uBTC ~=3D $0.01 currently. And I don't think ver=
y<br>
many people on this list would consider bitcoin overvalued in the long<br>
term perspective.<br>
<br>
Better to go through a confusing renumbering only once.<br>
<br>
Mark<br>
<br>
On 11/14/13 12:01 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:<br>
> ... I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to cha=
nge the<br>
> base unit in such an established system. =C2=A0There is no easy way to=
<br>
> do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's worth...<b=
r>
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<br>
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Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
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velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
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