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From: Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 16:17:31 -0700
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To: Sergio Demian Lerner <sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com>
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Cc: Arnoud Kouwenhoven - Pukaki Corp via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] If you had a single chance to double the
transactions/second Bitcoin allows...
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--001a113eb9c83d954e051cc0d867
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Then I would suggest working on payment channel networks. No decrease of
the interblock time will ever compete with the approximately instant time
it takes to validate a microchannel payment.
On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Sergio Demian Lerner <
sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com> wrote:
> In some rare occasions in everyday life, what matters is seconds. Like
> when paying for parking in the car while some other cars are behind you in
> the line. You don't want them to get upset.
>
> I takes me tens of minutes to shop. But once you choose your merchandise
> and your payment starts processing, if the payment system allows several
> payments to be pending simultaneously and you're not blocking the next
> person to pay, then I don't care waiting some minutes for confirmation. But
> saving 10 minutes of confirmation is a lot.
>
> I ague that our time is mostly measured in minutes (but I don't have any
> sociological, cultural, genetic or anthropological evidence). It takes
> minutes to read an e-mail, minutes to correct a bug, minutes to have lunch,
> minutes to drive to the office, minutes to talk to your kids. A payment
> taking 1 minute is much better than a payment taking 10. If I could choose
> a single thing to change to Bitcoin, I would lower the payment time, even
> within the minute scale.
>
> Sergio
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Natanael <natanael.l@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Den 7 aug 2015 23:37 skrev "Sergio Demian Lerner via bitcoin-dev" <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
>> >
>> > Mark,
>> > It took you 3 minutes to respond to my e-mail. And I responded to you 4
>> minutes later. If you had responded to me in 10 minutes, I would be of out
>> the office and we wouldn't have this dialogue. So 5 minutes is a lot of
>> time.
>> >
>> > Obviously this is not a technical response to the technical issues you
>> argue. But "minutes" is a time scale we humans use to measure time very
>> often.
>>
>> But what's more likely to matter is seconds. What you need then is some
>> variant of multisignature notaries (Greenaddress.it, lightning network),
>> where the combination of economic incentives and legal liability gives you
>> the assurance of doublespend protection from the time of publication of the
>> transaction to the first block confirmation.
>>
>
>
--001a113eb9c83d954e051cc0d867
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Then I would suggest working on payment channel networks. =
No decrease of the interblock time will ever compete with the approximately=
instant time it takes to validate a microchannel payment.<br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4=
:08 PM, Sergio Demian Lerner <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sergio=
.d.lerner@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com</a>></s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">In some rare=
occasions in everyday life, what matters is seconds. Like when paying for =
parking in the car while some other cars are behind you in the line. You do=
n't want them to get upset.=C2=A0<div><br><div><div>I takes me tens of =
minutes to shop. But once you choose your merchandise and your payment star=
ts processing, if the payment system allows several payments to be pending =
simultaneously and you're not blocking the next person to pay, then I d=
on't care waiting some minutes for confirmation. But saving 10 minutes =
of confirmation is a lot.</div><div><br></div><div>I ague that our time is =
mostly measured in minutes (but I don't have any sociological, cultural=
, genetic or anthropological evidence). It takes minutes to read an e-mail,=
minutes to correct a bug, minutes to have lunch, minutes to drive to the o=
ffice, minutes to talk to your kids. A payment taking 1 minute is much bett=
er than a payment taking 10. If I could choose a single thing to change to =
Bitcoin, I would lower the payment time, even within the minute scale.</div=
><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Sergio<=
/div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></font></span></div></div></d=
iv><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 7:46 PM, Natanael <span di=
r=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:natanael.l@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">nat=
anael.l@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
span><p dir=3D"ltr">Den 7 aug 2015 23:37 skrev "Sergio Demian Lerner v=
ia bitcoin-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundatio=
n.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>:<br>
><br>
> Mark,<br>
> It took you 3 minutes to respond to my e-mail. And I responded to you =
4 minutes later. If you had responded to me in 10 minutes, I would be of ou=
t the office and we wouldn't have this dialogue. So 5 minutes is a lot =
of time.<br>
><br>
> Obviously this is not a technical response to the technical issues you=
argue. But "minutes" is a time scale we humans use to measure ti=
me very often.</p>
</span><p dir=3D"ltr">But what's more likely to matter is seconds. What=
you need then is some variant of multisignature notaries (Greenaddress.it,=
lightning network), where the combination of economic incentives and legal=
liability gives you the assurance of doublespend protection from the time =
of publication of the transaction to the first block confirmation. </p>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
--001a113eb9c83d954e051cc0d867--
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