1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
|
Return-Path: <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82FECDE0
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:38:39 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-vk0-f54.google.com (mail-vk0-f54.google.com
[209.85.213.54])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C596D135
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:38:38 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by vkay187 with SMTP id y187so117792817vka.3
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:38 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=jtimon-cc.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:cc:content-type;
bh=6V0jzD5haFETGfSxM48Gp7XmYyJI7UUe/bcEMp05vA0=;
b=jeIJYeLFKQF4xB1fM13HwZr24RKtLlIQ/doMgvq0XjxQAL+GOguJF3mPFNeWxu/IJS
MfGMgpZo2JBfYlnA4EauBcTRI7roofjSPvQwivCXe0mvrzGzSgsAc9AqGRPUUCdqS2y7
LHjkc3EZKbYQr4JwTQkDfW57aU+xSx0vqswDMtAeFNfZXwKeVBgOBESdjgpE44SDJcU+
+y4/KJ23/tDvOgXIlegFCmtDwrqMPl6ZTYMOwABPjVvMf0A96JC2pumQxwHncBtRYbRI
crEufWyB3lXilZTNt+cDx8LswOUQYvG7XumE1YEIN4z63yvLwcJN9EQojhihcdsN1MHR
QUHw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type;
bh=6V0jzD5haFETGfSxM48Gp7XmYyJI7UUe/bcEMp05vA0=;
b=J6Lyd1+vLveilBBXOabXd+bfZXJR49ew1icAjOiu/oO8RnWwSVL/5QA0xbxAHL5Sr2
kKnuY8xePH1a9g/iy/9gcy6EGDRrPT1zA+42BRLSD5KerIG/3O/P+KBNcVACNx+YfuWH
szQ/g6RKtzuTwpVBKXTB6Plk7zcyt/ghVnpZnK11H+1cDd8eH3KcQlWhw9O2UNae4k/t
KWSDtedus9jer/WfC1DWAlTVGnHYrIQ3sSTJrRT/02X4IP5oHF4Zrjdxaci0YZTW2Chj
SyAnFjYfbzXtGiYeboz2Z/XTkV1rWRvAekAEsSCmdyjRajormKyUORI6l2zzy0isfKWU
Wg9A==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlOQNGKjBYC7FU2N7usZ9zEQUmyFr5YMzAnKlpT/rR12kkaQ4Kkh56Qf3a8Ol/yaAd+fDxRbGPfMzHtYY+8/RoDb/X63Q==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.31.34.196 with SMTP id i187mr14963389vki.2.1449848318051;
Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.31.236.70 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.31.236.70 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:37 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CABm2gDr5rKNMerPebJ6b3ayJznEAAvu_zM76syooH-3MepSzXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEj3M+wYicoACcpG5YUU6vF8vg98XCcJWmgBiyrJj-xHHxrhig@mail.gmail.com>
<CABm2gDq3K2uUWx_itZQJH53EFOJKAWOLiy3NdHWGPvUOCm33wA@mail.gmail.com>
<CAEj3M+ze9HU1KWoWT2nugw9hYY97jk_xsL8WUWqThq_wrXSAVg@mail.gmail.com>
<CABm2gDr5rKNMerPebJ6b3ayJznEAAvu_zM76syooH-3MepSzXg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:38:37 +0100
Message-ID: <CABm2gDrD2XfhG1VEb6iAb0AoPu9AwQgRjdbv-=cOUhU0_FTrQQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
To: Luke Durback <luke.durback@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,URIBL_BLACK autolearn=no
version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Standard BIP Draft: Turing Pseudo-Completeness
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:38:39 -0000
--001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
well "only executed once" (every time someone verifies that transaction)...
On Dec 11, 2015 4:36 PM, "Jorge Tim=C3=B3n" <jtimon@jtimon.cc> wrote:
>
> On Dec 10, 2015 7:36 AM, "Luke Durback" <luke.durback@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Tomorrow, I'll work on writing a way to do voting on proposals with BTC
> used as voting shares (This will be difficult as I do not know FORTH).
> That seems like a fairly simple, useful example that will require loops a=
nd
> reused functions. I'll add a fee that goes to the creator.
>
> If it's voting for something consensus, you will need something special.
> If it's not consensus (ie external) thw voting doesn't have to hit the
> chain at all.
> I don't see how "loops and reused functions" are needed in the scripting
> language for this use case, but I'm probably missing some details. Please=
,
> the more concrete you make your example, the easiest it will be for me to
> understand.
>
> > IMO, if you write a complicated system of scripts that's used
> frequently, it makes sense to charge a fee for its usage.
>
> But each scriptSig is only executed once with its corresponding
> scriptPubKey. Are you proposing we change that?
>
> > A decentralized exchange between colored coins, for instance might tak=
e
> a small fee on each trade.
>
> I've been researching the topic of decentralized exchange from before the
> term "colored coins" was first used (now there's multiple designs and
> implementations); contributed to and reviewed many designs: none of them
> (colored coins or not) required turing completeness.
> I'm sorry, but what you are saying here is too vague for me to concretely
> be able to refute the low level "needs" you claim your use cases to have.
>
> > On Dec 10, 2015 10:10 AM, "Luke Durback via bitcoin-dev" <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > > This, combined with the ability to make new transactions arbitrarily
> would allow a function to pay its creator.
> >
> > I don't understand what you mean by "a function" in this context, I
> assume you mean a scriptSig, but then "paying its creator" doesn't make
> much sense to me .
> >
> > Could you provide some high level examples of the use cases you would
> like to support with this?
>
--001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<p dir=3D"ltr">well "only executed once" (every time someone veri=
fies that transaction)...</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Dec 11, 2015 4:36 PM, "Jorge Tim=C3=B3n&=
quot; <jtimon@jtimon.cc> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr"><br>
On Dec 10, 2015 7:36 AM, "Luke Durback" <<a href=3D"mailto:luk=
e.durback@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">luke.durback@gmail.com</a>> wrote=
:<br>
><br>
> Tomorrow, I'll work on writing a way to do voting on proposals wit=
h BTC used as voting shares (This will be difficult as I do not know FORTH)=
.=C2=A0 That seems like a fairly simple, useful example that will require l=
oops and reused functions.=C2=A0 I'll add a fee that goes to the creato=
r.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">If it's voting for something consensus, you will need so=
mething special. If it's not consensus (ie external) thw voting doesn&#=
39;t have to hit the chain at all.<br>
I don't see how "loops and reused functions" are needed in th=
e scripting language for this use case, but I'm probably missing some d=
etails. Please, the more concrete you make your example, the easiest it wil=
l be for me to understand.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">> IMO, if you write a complicated system of scripts that&=
#39;s used frequently, it makes sense to charge a fee for its usage.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">But each scriptSig is only executed once with its correspond=
ing scriptPubKey. Are you proposing we change that?</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">>=C2=A0 A decentralized exchange between colored coins, f=
or instance might take a small fee on each trade.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I've been researching the topic of decentralized exchang=
e from before the term "colored coins" was first used (now there&=
#39;s multiple designs and implementations); contributed to and reviewed ma=
ny designs: none of them (colored coins or not) required turing completenes=
s.<br>
I'm sorry, but what you are saying here is too vague for me to concrete=
ly be able to refute the low level "needs" you claim your use cas=
es to have.<br></p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">> On Dec 10, 2015 10:10 AM, "Luke Durback via bitcoi=
n-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > This, combined with the ability to make new transactions arbitrar=
ily would allow a function to pay its creator.<br>
><br>
> I don't understand what you mean by "a function" in this=
context, I assume you mean a scriptSig, but then "paying its creator&=
quot; doesn't make much sense to me .<br>
><br>
> Could you provide some high level examples of the use cases you would =
like to support with this?</p>
</blockquote></div>
--001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53--
|
