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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:38:37 +0100
Message-ID: <CABm2gDrD2XfhG1VEb6iAb0AoPu9AwQgRjdbv-=cOUhU0_FTrQQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
To: Luke Durback <luke.durback@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Standard BIP Draft: Turing Pseudo-Completeness
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well "only executed once" (every time someone verifies that transaction)...
On Dec 11, 2015 4:36 PM, "Jorge Tim=C3=B3n" <jtimon@jtimon.cc> wrote:

>
> On Dec 10, 2015 7:36 AM, "Luke Durback" <luke.durback@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Tomorrow, I'll work on writing a way to do voting on proposals with BTC
> used as voting shares (This will be difficult as I do not know FORTH).
> That seems like a fairly simple, useful example that will require loops a=
nd
> reused functions.  I'll add a fee that goes to the creator.
>
> If it's voting for something consensus, you will need something special.
> If it's not consensus (ie external) thw voting doesn't have to hit the
> chain at all.
> I don't see how "loops and reused functions" are needed in the scripting
> language for this use case, but I'm probably missing some details. Please=
,
> the more concrete you make your example, the easiest it will be for me to
> understand.
>
> > IMO, if you write a complicated system of scripts that's used
> frequently, it makes sense to charge a fee for its usage.
>
> But each scriptSig is only executed once with its corresponding
> scriptPubKey. Are you proposing we change that?
>
> >  A decentralized exchange between colored coins, for instance might tak=
e
> a small fee on each trade.
>
> I've been researching the topic of decentralized exchange from before the
> term "colored coins" was first used (now there's multiple designs and
> implementations); contributed to and reviewed many designs: none of them
> (colored coins or not) required turing completeness.
> I'm sorry, but what you are saying here is too vague for me to concretely
> be able to refute the low level "needs" you claim your use cases to have.
>
> > On Dec 10, 2015 10:10 AM, "Luke Durback via bitcoin-dev" <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > > This, combined with the ability to make new transactions arbitrarily
> would allow a function to pay its creator.
> >
> > I don't understand what you mean by "a function" in this context, I
> assume you mean a scriptSig, but then "paying its creator" doesn't make
> much sense to me .
> >
> > Could you provide some high level examples of the use cases you would
> like to support with this?
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">well &quot;only executed once&quot; (every time someone veri=
fies that transaction)...</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Dec 11, 2015 4:36 PM, &quot;Jorge Tim=C3=B3n&=
quot; &lt;jtimon@jtimon.cc&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr"><br>
On Dec 10, 2015 7:36 AM, &quot;Luke Durback&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:luk=
e.durback@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">luke.durback@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tomorrow, I&#39;ll work on writing a way to do voting on proposals wit=
h BTC used as voting shares (This will be difficult as I do not know FORTH)=
.=C2=A0 That seems like a fairly simple, useful example that will require l=
oops and reused functions.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll add a fee that goes to the creato=
r.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">If it&#39;s voting for something consensus, you will need so=
mething special. If it&#39;s not consensus (ie external) thw voting doesn&#=
39;t have to hit the chain at all.<br>
I don&#39;t see how &quot;loops and reused functions&quot; are needed in th=
e scripting language for this use case, but I&#39;m probably missing some d=
etails. Please, the more concrete you make your example, the easiest it wil=
l be for me to understand.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt; IMO, if you write a complicated system of scripts that&=
#39;s used frequently, it makes sense to charge a fee for its usage.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">But each scriptSig is only executed once with its correspond=
ing scriptPubKey. Are you proposing we change that?</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt;=C2=A0 A decentralized exchange between colored coins, f=
or instance might take a small fee on each trade.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ve been researching the topic of decentralized exchang=
e from before the term &quot;colored coins&quot; was first used (now there&=
#39;s multiple designs and implementations); contributed to and reviewed ma=
ny designs: none of them (colored coins or not) required turing completenes=
s.<br>
I&#39;m sorry, but what you are saying here is too vague for me to concrete=
ly be able to refute the low level &quot;needs&quot; you claim your use cas=
es to have.<br></p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt; On Dec 10, 2015 10:10 AM, &quot;Luke Durback via bitcoi=
n-dev&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; This, combined with the ability to make new transactions arbitrar=
ily would allow a function to pay its creator.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t understand what you mean by &quot;a function&quot; in this=
 context, I assume you mean a scriptSig, but then &quot;paying its creator&=
quot; doesn&#39;t make much sense to me .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Could you provide some high level examples of the use cases you would =
like to support with this?</p>
</blockquote></div>

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