From: Ross A. Finlayson (extropy@apexinternetsoftware.com)
Date: Sat Dec 07 2002 - 09:44:09 MST
On Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 12:02 AM, Spudboy100@aol.com wrote:
> Ross F opined:
>
> <<Set theory and numbers would exist without a physical universe, it's
> possible to conceive of the numbers without a requirement of a physical
> universe.>>
>
> I am guessing that set theory is the result of human neural integration
> and such organic features as opposable thumbs, hand eye coordination,
> the discovery and implementation of fire, and a host of other
> occurrences due to evolution.
>
> Set theory may be recognized as something discernible in nature, but it
> takes a human brain to view this, Squirrels, Lowland Gorillas, Toucans,
> and Angelfish have no concept of set theory. Up until now it takes a
> specialized mammal, called human, to see this.
>
> If the human brain didn't function as it does, there is no set theory.
> Unless some other intelligent specie evolves, some sophisticated
> computer A.I.; really set theory doesn't seem to exist. Set theory is
> the activity, then of humans comprehending mathematics, which itself,
> is a
> caused by a complex set of neurons moving chemicals around, which
> conduct electrical pulses. Hence, even thought itself is material, in
> an identifiable way. Juices go squish-squish, and the neuron cells go
> buzz-buzz from electrons jumping.
>
> Question? Do you hold math as a sacrosanct, non-material, part of the
> cosmos, even though it appears as a development of biological and
> cultural actions?
>
What you illustrate there is the difference between math and mathematics.
We could expect any rational being to comprehend rational numeric and
other mathematical relations, except for philosophers. That is to say,
any sufficiently advanced (alien) life form has a glimpse of math and
probably socially understands some mathematics.
I was thinking about it, and thought that maybe prior to the existence
of anything there was null. Then, somehow, for any given reason, there
was some infinitesimal "flaw" or anything different. Then as soon as
there was something different then all of the nothingness was polarized
to anything and at that point there were equal amounts of something and
nothing. Then it goes spiral and then ying-yang and then on to fractal
until the second bit of entropy happens, and so on and so forth,
yielding everything with a sum of zero, or sum zero totality, or zero
equals infinity. Thus basically nothing or not nothing.
Yet still, that doesn't explain what causes the universe. A unified
field theory, or as they say "T.O.E.", may explain.
Ross
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