From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Thu Sep 05 2002 - 16:25:14 MDT
Brian D Williams wrote:
>>From: Harvey Newstrom <mail@HarveyNewstrom.com>
>
>
>>What do you call "citizenship"?
>
>
> The short answer is the sum total of rights AND duties we have as
> citizens.
>
>
>>What specific rights would be earned? Should the right to vote be
>>earned? Should the right to have a say in one's own government be
>>earned? Should a right to a trial by jury or access to council be
>>earned? Should free-speech, and freedom from religion be earned?
>>Should freedom from unreasonable search and seizure be earned? I
>>tend to see most "benefits" of "citizenship" as innate human
>>rights. I am not sure what benefits could be earned by some that
>>I would advocate taking away from everyone else.
>
>
> Very good questions all! Exactly what I was looking for!
>
> Rights are the sum total yes, you have them by virtue of being too
> young till you get to a certain age, then kind of like the Amish
> do, you would actually have to join to be a member.
>
> I don't think it has to be military alone, neither did Heinlein.
> Working in a senior center, a homeless shelter, or any of the other
> thankless tasks out there would qualify you. The idea is that you
> would have joined a society of your own free will and actually paid
> a part of the real costs with a term of public service. A number of
> Vets I know went on to do a stint in the peace corp after they got
> out.
>
> The "innate" rights we have now are not actually innate, people
> paid a high price for us to have them, and as Jefferson and others
> have warned they must continue to be paid if we are to keep them.
>
So you totally do not understand and repudiate "inalienable
rights". In that case, you have no idea what this country was
founded on or what you were really fighting for. No government
has rights to give you and for you to "earn". That was the
entire point. Given that you do not understand something so
fundamental to what this country stands for, I see no point in
continuing this exchange.
- samantha
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