From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Thu Aug 01 2002 - 21:58:12 MDT
Forrest writes
> > I'm saying that while a nation is democratic (in every historical
> > example) it does not kill millions of its citizens.
>
> So... the American Indians and Negro slaves can safely be left
> out of this equation since they weren't technically citizens.
Okay, evidently you have an axe to grind on a different subject.
Fine by me, let's argue.
I challenge you to establish your claim that millions of either
Negro slaves or American Indians were killed by the United States.
(In the context of Randall's and my discussion, by the way, we
were explicitly talking about how the governments of Germany and
the Soviet Union did in fact *kill*, that is execute, millions
of their own citizens, in case you missed that.)
> We'll also have to omit a half million+ dead Iraqis, several
> million dead Vietnamese, a few hundred thousand Latin Americans,
"Omit"? My statement still stands. Oh yeah, I forgot. You
want to change the subject to "American atrocities" or something.
Okay, fine.
Why did you leave out half a million Germans killed by Americans
in each world war? What about Japanese victims? Why are Iraqi
casualties different? I'm sure that you know that war is very
bad news for combatant nations, and I don't blame the U.S. for
doing everything it can, and often successfully, to minimize
its own losses.
North Vietnamese losses to American and South Vietnamese forces
are about one million, not "several". As for evil, ponder this:
"In the first two years after the fall of Saigon (1975-1977),
there were almost twice as many total *civilian* fatalities in
Southeast Asia---from the Cambodian holocaust, outright
executions, horrendous conditions in concentration camps, and
failed escapes by refugees---as all those incurred during ten
years of major American involvement (1965-74)", p. 425, "Carnage
and Culture", by Victor Davis Hanson. Note the contrast between
"two" years and "ten" years.
Also, would you explain how Americans killed a few hundred thousand
Latin Americans? I would not let the various Latin American
governments off the hook so lightly, if I were you, any more
that one can lay Mao's victims at the feet of Stalin regardless
of all the aid and support given.
> Alternatively, we can model the US as just another rotted-out,
> despotic, oligarchic empire and dispense with the democratic
> argument altogether.
Is this a serious suggestion on your part?
> You may enjoy Hans Hermann Hoppe's new book *Democracy: The God
> That Failed*. I haven't read it yet except for excerpts and reviews;
> mostly quite positive. Democracy is completely overrated-...
as compared to what?
Lee
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