From: Dickey, Michael F (michael_f_dickey@groton.pfizer.com)
Date: Fri Aug 02 2002 - 07:06:18 MDT
From: Lee Corbin [mailto:lcorbin@tsoft.com]
"Okay, evidently you have an axe to grind on a different subject.
Fine by me, let's argue.
"I challenge you to establish your claim that millions of either
Negro slaves or American Indians were killed by the United States.
(In the context of Randall's and my discussion, by the way, we
were explicitly talking about how the governments of Germany and
the Soviet Union did in fact *kill*, that is execute, millions
of their own citizens, in case you missed that.)"
This is just more of that 'The US isnt perfect so its as bad as everyone
else' post modern relativism. If forest doesnt like the US so much, take a
quick trip on over to Cuba.
"What about Japanese victims?"
I think it pertinent to compare what the japanese did following their
decisive victory in world war II, Nan king. They killed 300,000 men women a
children, and raped an estimated 100,000 women and children. Compare this
to what the US and allies did at the defeat of Japan, did they move in and
burn down the cities and slaughter and rape hundreds of thousands? No, they
helped rebuilt the nation, both the industrial complex and the economy, now
japan is one of the most powerfull economies in the world.
"North Vietnamese losses to American and South Vietnamese forces
are about one million, not "several". As for evil, ponder this:
"In the first two years after the fall of Saigon (1975-1977),
there were almost twice as many total *civilian* fatalities in
Southeast Asia---from the Cambodian holocaust, outright
executions, horrendous conditions in concentration camps, and
failed escapes by refugees---as all those incurred during ten
years of major American involvement (1965-74)", p. 425, "Carnage
and Culture", by Victor Davis Hanson. Note the contrast between
"two" years and "ten" years."
Hmm, lets not forget the Khmere Rouge in neighboring cambodia. Their
population fared much worse, funded by the Soviet Union through the north
vietnamese proxy the Khmer Rouge slaughtered 1/3rd to 1/2 of its population,
between 2.5 - 3.5 million people. During this time, liberals in the US were
arguing *against* foriegn aide for cambodia. Also add the 1.5 million South
Vietnamese people who fled after the US withdrawel from the region, a good
600,000 of which tried to escape into the South China sea. Most of them
died.
Id like to see the 1.5 million south vietnamese and 3.5 million cambodians
added to the vietnam memorial. Maybe next time the post modernistic liberal
panzies wont make us turn tail and run, and hopefully save the lives of
millions of people.
> mostly quite positive. Democracy is completely overrated-...
as compared to what?
'Democracy is there worce thing out there...except for everything else' -
Churchill
Lets get real here, the US isnt perfect, nobody is suggesting it is. But
nothing is perfect, this doesnt mean we cant recognize certain governments
as 'better' for their population then other governments. Clearly, the US,
despite its 'threat to civil liberties' and inflated defense budgett and
high taxes is no where NEAR comparable to China under Mao or Russia under
Stalin, whos murderes numbered in the dozens of millions.
Michael
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