From: Phil Osborn (philosborn2001@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Jul 29 2002 - 22:57:16 MDT
I didn't intend to return to this thread. However, I
am truly appalled by the level of ignorance that has
been displayed here.
First, as others have pointed out, most people
incarcerated in the U.S. are there for doing things
such as self-medication or using recreational drugs or
providing the same to other people.
Don't you have a right to put whatever you want in
your own body, providing that you don't do it while
driving or otherwise creating a risk for other people?
Or have all the libertarians abandoned the list?
Note: you can be put away just as fast for having
Deprenyl or many other life-extension drugs without
proper authorization from the medical monopolies. In
Georgia, you can be sent away for years for having an
aspirin not in its original bottle, unless they
changed that law since the '60's. Forget carrying a
container with your daily handful of nutritional
supplements. Each one of those vitamin pills is worth
another count and more years incarceration, and you
better believe that they used that law to get rid of
war protestors back then and there were people who
spent a good portion of their lives and youth
imprisoned for no more than a few aspirin or tylenol.
Hey, but that's OK - it was the LAW..
Here's the libertarian position: punishment doesn't
work AND it's a violation of the rights of the
recipient, no matter WHAT he or she did that we don't
like. The proper moral goal is not to act like the
great thug in the sky - God - and hurt people who
offend us. It is to pursue our own lives and values
free of fear of being robbed or murdered, right?
We KNOW that punishment simply creates more motivated
criminals, but we excuse that on the grounds that it
feels good to hurt them back and that maybe it will
deter others. OK, maybe it will, to some limited
degree, but it sure doesn't seem to be working very
well, does it? The U.S. has the highest number and
the highest percentage incarcerated in the entire
world! Does it have the lowest rate of crime or new
criminals? And how is this any different from the way
the Japanese would punish a whole group of prisoners
in WWII for the misbehavior of one? Is that justice?
No. The moral is the practical. Morality is a set of
principles for living based on long-term consequences.
People who live in a long-term perspective tend to be
moral. When we make them less than human and destroy
their future, are they going to be moral?
No. Other societies have dealt successfully with
crime, violent and otherwize, by making the criminal
literally PAY for his stupid or vicious or mistaken
behavior. That means restitution, putting things
right. Why do we CARE what the criminal experiences?
SO WHAT if he is happy even though he behaved like a
vicious animal? Our legitimate business is not trying
to moralize the world or make people suffer for their
sins, but to make it a good place for US to be moral.
Make sure that crime doesn't pay, except in
restitution. Restitution is justice. Punishment is
simply more aggression.
Certainly there will be a small number of people who
are so psychologically screwed up that they will
always destroy more than they can possibly pay
restitution for. Fine. Where do those idiots buy
insurance? No one will sell them basic coverage,
because the record indicates that the provider will
always lose money on them. Without basic insurance or
a larger bond than they can afford, given their
record, how will they drive a car on the private
roads? No one will let them on one. What community
will let in through its gates? Who would dare hire
them?
If they do try to initiate violence to parasite off
peaceful people, then of course those people have
every right to defend themselves as necessary - or let
their professional security company handle it. (If
they use unnecessary force, naturally they open
themselves up to a damage claim.)
Such incorrigibles will starve, or they will figure
out how to change themselves so that people will deal
with them. That's justice. At no point is there
justification for anything like the idiotic system we
use now.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Nov 02 2002 - 09:15:46 MST