From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Thu May 23 2002 - 20:29:28 MDT
Hi Gina!
I'm Lee Corbin, a foresight senior associate, and I'm sorry that
we haven't met. Mark S. Miller, however, knows me quite well, and
perhaps that's the same "Miller".
I'm writing to assure you that the sentiments about women in
general are not held by very many people on the Extropians list.
> Thank you Amara and thank you for the few gentlemen who have supported
> these comments, as I am really beginning to worry about my place, comfort
> zone, and my value on this list. I am valuable, and I don't need to defend
> that.
I wish that I could just say, "don't worry about your place",
but I know that it's never that easy. Your value on the list
is beyond dispute. But more importantly, even if it were not
(say you were unintelligent or uninteresting), no one---and I
mean no one---should be made to feel unwelcome. (Right now
I'm myself being accused of harboring Un-Extropian thought,
and yes, if too many people chimed in with that accusation,
I too would start to feel unwelcome on the Extropians list.)
> This may well give extropians a bad name and leave
> closed doors that may have been open to inviting
> people into our knowledge and expansion.
That's a very real danger. Too often we forget about everyone
who may be reading the list.
> In fact, I may have to remove myself, if I feel I am
> not a valued member of this list as a woman or if I
> have to read this sort of nausea.
I'm sorry to say this, but it sort of sounds like a threat.
Pace the above qualification (about external impressions)
would you really prefer that people hide their true thoughts?
> He thinks that because I am so upset, I should post this email
> that I have been holding back in my drafts folder to express how
> reprehensible this thread has been.
Yes, that's right, in my opinion. Everyone should let
everyone know how they think and feel.
> This person has value to themselves and to their family, and
> even people that are often not thought of as having any value
> because of poor circumstances in their life, bring value to
> strangers, provoking generosity, empathy and solution for
> ourselves, for humanity.
Exactly, and very well put. *Value* is not objective, but rather
is a subjective valuation determined by someone's value system.
One of our great goals in cryonics is to try to get through to
people who think that they aren't "good enough" to be preserved
for the future. The value to themselves *alone* is sufficient!
Just as you say.
I myself wasn't upset by the thread, however, because sort of
relish hard decisions, like that guy's lifeboat example. As
macabre as it was, it so happened that it didn't set off my
sensitivities the way that it did yours. (I am hardly immune
to that, by the way. I am getting ever more and more sentimental.
It's almost embarrassing how much I cry while watching tear-
jerkers.) Some of the replies were interesting in that the
reasons suggested could have shed some light on what people
value and why. But nothing important, or even slightly profound
emerged, as I would have guessed. But I'm sorry that it was so
gross.
> But you can not replace a child, even if you clone them, they
> are not the same child. They are a unique individual who
> impacts and imprints society, family with a personal message
> that is theirs alone.
The whole solution to the "racism" threads needs to start with
your "unique individual". That is the bottom reality. A person's
uniqueness is simply undeniable. I believe in the "liberal
humanist subject", so-called, a sort of 19th century liberal
concept that says that people are individuals first, and attributes
like race and gender are secondary aspects. That's almost a
scientific fact, but, of course, well meaning people can disagree.
> I'm sure the mention of men sending statements of support offlist was
> meant as some sort of proof, but only proves to me, a state of regression.
I should 'fess up. I was one of those men. I told Phil flat
out that I disagreed with at least half of what he was saying,
but that I felt that it was wrong for anyone to tell him that
he shouldn't post. Just like I was telling you above, namely,
that openness and frankness are almost always best. I'm with
Voltaire---as I think we all are when we stop to think about
it---: "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend your
right to say it."
> This also makes me feel uncomfortable, that for as
> long as I have been on this list, in the background
> noise these feelings of prejudice were being aimed
> at me,
I'm positive that no one was thinking of you, and semi-
positive that no one was thinking of all women. But I
know that that's easy enough to say. Please accept my
support and that of many, many who don't have time to
write.
> It doesn't matter if you are 7 or 12, it's tragic to die. It's tragic
> period. One of the biggest battles I hope for advancing technologies to
> prevail over is disease and death.......this is what has brought me here, to
> this group. I am involved with the hopes that we can have happier, longer
> (or infinite) lives.
Yes, that's what the big battle is about.
> Gee, I know who I'd throw off the boat,
> go ahead, TRY and make me get off!
I'm sure that you don't really mean that :-) As you
write above, always and uppermost in our minds should
be saving *everyone's* life. There is no individual
who has ever lived who doesn't deserve to.
Yours,
Lee Corbin
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