From: Reason (reason@exratio.com)
Date: Sat May 11 2002 - 17:55:14 MDT
--> Mike Lorrey
> > My 2c, continuing the fine list tradition of failing to provide
> the actual
> > information requested: get involved in an open source project. Having
> > recognized open source projects on your resume considerably
> increases your
> > credibility with tech-knowledgable hiring managers. I never
> hire developers
> > who haven't worked on open source in their own time: it's a
> clear indicator
> > of the difference between someone who treats it like a job, and
> someone who
> > has initiative and demonstrably loves coding.
>
> At this point in my life, I'm entirely sick of doing something for
> nothing. That sort of altruism has gotten me into (or contributed to) my
> present predicament and I'm frankly done with it. The world is gonna pay
> me for my work or not get any at all. Whether I love coding or not is
> not demonstrated by how much of my free time I've given away on dead end
> projects that either never see the light of day or are ripped off in the
> end.
Wow, you have the cynicism dial turned way up, don't you?
The answer to dead-end projects is not to work on them; if you're going to
do altruistic coding, follow the masses. Work on the apache project,
contribute to jboss, etc, etc. Work on things with name recognition. There's
a bunch of really fun stuff on sourceforge.net -- if you find appservers and
webservers dry as dust, there's always hugely active and widely used game
projects. Pick your poison.
OTOH, my coding (as opposed to web dev :) skills and preferences are
entirely adequately demonstrated by what I myself consider (currently)
dead-end work: www.twilightminds.com. Since I'm falling into the management
pit these days, I really have to keep up to speed on new code in my own
projects. No-one taught me J2EE (and all the fiddly junk that comes with
it) -- I taught myself by building stuff.
> > That and you'll get far more out of working on an open source
> > project than you will out of an official course.
>
> No, I won't. HR people have absolutely no idea what "open source"
> actually is and doesn't mean diddly to them next to a certification. HR
> people are generally idiots who cover their own asses and ignorance by
> demanding things that shouldn't have to be.
Well, really you're talking to the wrong people or not talking to the right
people in the right way. The only things you can do to get a resume past the
non-tech HR/recruiter/etc people involve calling them up and schmoozing.
They will, for the most part, ignore e-mail or judge your resume in
completely the wrong way if you aren't on the phone or there in person to
explain and elaborate. Every one of them is different and you can never get
a resume to look good to them without talking to them to find out what it is
they're looking for.
Yes, they're mostly idiots (well, the recruiters anyway). Yes, they know
nothing about any the things they should, and must pretend to know all of
that stuff to keep their jobs. Treat them the same way as you would
politicians if you want results.
> > [My observations based on the last four months in the Bay Area
> are that good
> > J2EE people are the new vermin of the industry; makes me feel
> bad for poking fun at web developers last year].
>
> Great. I'm not in the Bay area. The fact that they are considered
> 'vermin' tells me that there are far more java coders than actual jobs,
> if they are wasting their time on open source projects in order to build
> experience because nobody will hire them.
Hurdle 1 = recruiters/HR people
Hurdle 2 = technically knowledgable hiring authority
Trust me, open source looks good and benefits you for hurdle 2 if you go
about it the right way. I hire people, I talk to people who hire people, I
know what I'm talking about on this one.
> So, despite your best attempts, you've actually told me something I
> wanted to know. ;)
Drat.
GUI coders are always in demand, you know. Even in the current market it is
hard to find people who can code Java Swing/C++ MFC/etc interfaces well and
know interface design inside and out. That would seem a logical evolution
from your current skillset.
Reason
http://www.exratio.com/
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