1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
|
Return-Path: <user@petertodd.org>
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A08BC002D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:20:32 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F07060B60
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:20:32 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 4F07060B60
Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=petertodd.org
header.i=@petertodd.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm3 header.b=gJSwuVjJ;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key,
unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com
header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm2 header.b=vFE8/3eF
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.802
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7,
SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id oLXq-sC5irCR
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:20:31 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 652A2607F1
Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com
[64.147.123.20])
by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 652A2607F1
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:20:31 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45])
by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D32F3200916;
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:20:30 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162])
by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:20:30 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=petertodd.org;
h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to
:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender
:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1656458429; x=1656544829; bh=Pz
ScWuCryjhRGZtkLpmyZFu1mLnEwr9ySgPUo/R9BKY=; b=gJSwuVjJfEH1jp39gE
yodtU+Br3MSkDDqjqaXIQL2VcChNAydUEa9rjXguGdMXqPOA0T+PBvjAXGCCDZE1
jrbe6XdLcI1bBtGe9uGjjbzat9b6f965XgAKb5KXMrj+FYTQQ0v+y2SZrSxdoq+z
rj5Cuhptyd+K98Fupmbb3A5he6j2uxfO3Y1no2PmEomU4+afTUfxwc1Zg3cHxl91
qmvO/U4Ztnjyi+hQFknRPMZI6KR9MrF8KDtzocHX6Ts4PjLJvtk6jh0uBt7WRBgX
DM3cgNnRoPYhJ7Rf+4ZTatM8mppL84ZXkh286Q1A2ofPbmlCiUKfC+hzgAin7aMn
13ow==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id
:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id
:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to
:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=
fm2; t=1656458429; x=1656544829; bh=PzScWuCryjhRGZtkLpmyZFu1mLnE
wr9ySgPUo/R9BKY=; b=vFE8/3eF2mibiDCTRCaUzoPpXHPPO+hPij8+7VqxABcq
ILg2wswMwb8Ys+3UdU/E2+nUAMlBrZHoOFPOxcbxcDmV0WSqR0ZIxqtJzIiQTvB4
JPJ1yL/nrE+PMQSdUABo0z53PAumqdaoDv6mgnStW/QaCObjCIgRfqcR2MWCYPW3
5buL993BadWuXoGmon0RkHzzen3th158QLbMBz7PRcDNFARv3LBT8kdLLZ5DxM9F
pehUOEv9a7tH2yJV71g/hznjeSU7lwMd/OW2wVl0FzcEpgCY8Fjr0i1xp9mxZgQM
qyk0c3leYYzV2iLcDY0zt0vzEt9dpHrEoxem5u9P4Q==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:vYy7YhXOnnF3sFBgizpuBkd6ITZTXbxDopFbbFXklUjMC_0Kslq22w>
<xme:vYy7Yhm5Foc0TyLJolVAV5GLIZYvIiUErD9OmIUQTdH8DquVr_VwNr9ioL6XSjEHW
4C8g34CA6Grthn1v6Q>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:vYy7YtadZTe2Oi3xeN5ULaWmXwlciPricxPFN52_24NnxpiKxCEsNHlUiRc90VOPBImh-PBF-ij51XOr8u8LpA>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrudegkedgudekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf
fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen
uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne
cujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgv
rhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtth
gvrhhnpeelvdellefftddukeduffejgfefjeeuheeileeftdfgteduteeggeevueethfej
tdenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii
gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehushgvrhesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdr
ohhrgh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:vYy7YkXkPTwPI0s1FdcDYjMDD-zgPnjICXyleOFlpW1eAlrr4XIVXA>
<xmx:vYy7YrnzT8NDFHaEdzUKKNAlMgCestnPmeHyv9bwGr21rcDMuo854Q>
<xmx:vYy7YheYdZtDbrxfrvJ0uUXAT6yor6IiPmP2INoVndkiuL0DWiFGbA>
<xmx:vYy7YjtTESkgok4yBXCJOtbaLkMHIr4u7DMHBrO4dgnQoq43k05-XQ>
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue,
28 Jun 2022 19:20:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id B5B015F908; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:20:27 -0400
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Billy Tetrud <billy.tetrud@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <YruMu0N5VIYam9//@petertodd.org>
References: <CAHTn92zw_MaSKWiZGhGFqFYXJxv6kQ+7=XCHbRLim1jhtEsVVQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJowKgJ8GP4Ykzn5dMHZ7wsE04YmpOLgTpdc9tgfVng0qB0Jjg@mail.gmail.com>
<YqVfTU0M7XN8+Ybu@petertodd.org>
<Pwr9EFLSv2rU7nXRzqFuw2LPxpFo22g_qYy4reQzpMuSlgRzTG536uLjZCc9sI43olReGMA7BFgjnxJGKtZNtxU7qRy_-YYOnz6TeMy4h8Q=@protonmail.com>
<Yq77CnxOhr615ip8@petertodd.org>
<CAAxiura7-TTUOg=vuH8q+orX+LVED74f+NvaYqVve3j--CjTMQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJowKgL=nVwnUrpSKmnsTxOfk3DEEZL7awG=HypyCXSR3XCLxg@mail.gmail.com>
<CALeFGL0CQC4_swZTt-=sbe=ZiCmRthZghGDtrWFx5bQCBeOJcg@mail.gmail.com>
<YrS8URqD/BW4UrP0@petertodd.org>
<CAGpPWDb=dF4-D5GKb2NoEcdW6TokNQyrwpGVwHJk+0HL43+J1Q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0pidzsD06Dax64o9"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAGpPWDb=dF4-D5GKb2NoEcdW6TokNQyrwpGVwHJk+0HL43+J1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:20:32 -0000
--0pidzsD06Dax64o9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 10:55:56PM -0500, Billy Tetrud wrote:
> @Eric
> > People who transact are realizing the benefit of money - the avoidance
> of barter costs.
>=20
> I'm very confident you're incorrect that holders don't receive any benefit
> and you're certainly not correct that every spend is receiving the same
> benefit. As I'm sure you're aware, one of the primary components of a
> currency's value and purpose is as a store of value. Storing value happens
> while you're holding it, not while you're spending it. Consider the
> following two scenarios: one person holds onto 10 bitcoin for 10 years and
> then spends those 10 bitcoins in some way in 2 transactions. Another pers=
on
> spends 4 bitcoins to buy something, then sells it for 6 bitcoins, and then
> buys something else for that 6 bitcoins and then never acquires any bitco=
in
> for 10 years.
>=20
> Both people spent 10 bitcoins over 2 transactions. Over that 10 year
> period, only one of those people utilized bitcoin's utility as a store of
> value. Who benefited more from their use of bitcoin?
Notice how people frequenty bring up the fact that if you divide the total
block reward by the number of transactions, the cost per transaction is fai=
rly
high - on the order of tens of dollars.
This makes much more sense when you realize that the average value moved per
transaction is also very high - thousands of dollars - making the cost due =
to
inflation of those tens of dollars transactions low enough to be affordable.
--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--0pidzsD06Dax64o9
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=cF4K
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--0pidzsD06Dax64o9--
|