path: root/f4/c9237090c5e354082d710d14e21f34cdd3c502

Delivery-date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:15 -0800
Received: from mail-yb1-f184.google.com ([209.85.219.184])
	by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps  (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
	(Exim 4.94.2)
	(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBCU2P6FJ3EBBBHMOTG5QMGQESBXQ7HI@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1tOrJe-00018d-I4
	for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:15 -0800
Received: by mail-yb1-f184.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e39993d8594sf3508597276.3
        for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:14 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1734756128; x=1735360928; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version
         :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:sender:from
         :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=xf3/zOP1cd4paaqxX9nLf8/Jwp0oJkWKtj1ks4KHe7Y=;
        b=AQWOWr7xQ/UNmE1mTD895OcsH1fgOHMoZHzz2TbkXc1QlY0CJT61HuuVXZVJMwBU3d
         ewqevhembuyKvkbBcjZwykaGC16HudGC7hmNAUt79vYfRpAqYDpC+Jh+7gn3X8VHyeCw
         ftpLcKBjfbaH7NEmJUZthNXtqVyimZTUGqGuzW0RKrlHa9GBJMysX/FNCy5j9ZXIeu5P
         DOZKt09QYuyaoyzCAM+eFosaqg/+HGQ4xw1DXkdLdbSGgewnNPtxDEQsK1CKKyhI2ZTh
         Iu77B5E/kuC5DF7EVq3oJ+2FyB1VF9tNBSxdTjdJKgYMQkisr4ZXgIHClreLBrrWBy1z
         henQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734756128; x=1735360928; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version
         :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:from:to:cc
         :subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=xf3/zOP1cd4paaqxX9nLf8/Jwp0oJkWKtj1ks4KHe7Y=;
        b=BYlsd4H17nAb6BAZ5V2Mdk4wEgvdovL51d087An+Wwz7xUZ1kprwh5mqoQWyNZZNZF
         oTTQWU42aSj775CQG25nUibBkrOIuMKr738Up6C/X0bkbfc0+F0GrV1nBCQTRny5WAQk
         HiVOBD1/2a+Vgibg8LatzJ9Dpiegljv4X8xFcrqLcUoXKOT8zgCUGaKHRSnF37W2sRbk
         1J2oo3JXeXAJfBvrkqpfh2WWlrQ2MbbhcRryr4vWeCzI7mrbRvdhDtaLgKgNh81cfMTP
         W0tSArJ4tnFESZT6lt0ba8HW5/p2mCm/TB2MlUFSN704G5QKYtMxw9DLIPImpA6pJNSY
         OxKw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734756128; x=1735360928;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version
         :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:x-beenthere
         :x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
         :reply-to;
        bh=xf3/zOP1cd4paaqxX9nLf8/Jwp0oJkWKtj1ks4KHe7Y=;
        b=gC5O35ClCg9Ch01JlOiiwTxeb1jZcQwImK9et5/IvOcasm5bHYe9/cP2Dh+soPIDiN
         5GOfW+wqKwdy3ELRCyfM2wQQqEHIKKRRTLnr+fSxiPObEjfd8ZmQ3lN+SM5DPXiNmkme
         gr41Fq93RpVuwH5aE8Q0EDTjKtR0RFyseHx29xdYf4eliDw6IQ7vusXMg+7bv8sP0Rf7
         +qwGmFgHoJo7/hUZZhElbRx5yYxGOOjST4V3YmjFgSfQ7mr9NzfbDfUQyqNv9dtD2kcP
         7D9QNStKuSUSm4WrXNUJ6aYpn3PI1F1rW1I+nuvL/rCwC4yMKrvnHhKlmRoH2Xa7gcCO
         UQsA==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX8jtvYTweHcXtjFrNKf9PtMPEHVFOJfILDwkIBAYFVTOw4xLgsCDxyH/uxGsCubEe0mgQ4yAXzxTC+@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwkR7vAlJSNtxtd36qYTchQTNwivdDRZFOlK3oEk9OSc5gnSahr
	A9p4ti1MwG628xBi874i28UbMNH2Nw2bFDHAdkTFftMdVe4YYXSX
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGJolPhegKL0LI1Rvp+c5Mp2RxpSZ7/pjcc2+bOs1ZMcp/g2iy3fjj/k/x+xjg94k0VvuEiUQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:2789:b0:e3a:6bd:3f4d with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e538c3d6ef3mr4694664276.35.1734756127901;
        Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:07 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Received: by 2002:a25:a4a2:0:b0:e39:6d8a:558 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e537602d288ls818574276.1.-pod-prod-01-us;
 Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4b8d:b0:6ef:7f34:fe08 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f3f812730amr43256147b3.18.1734756124694;
        Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 2002:a0d:d202:0:b0:6ef:7d10:5a2f with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f3f56f322bms7b3;
        Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:07:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:9c0d:b0:6ef:6fef:4cb6 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f3f7f2a862mr46487667b3.0.1734750432720;
        Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:07:12 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:07:12 -0800 (PST)
From: /dev /fd0 <alicexbtong@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <fff33085-ca24-4553-9fa8-de8d60e8a9bfn@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <5565b149-48b7-4823-9363-89cfd70ecf09n@googlegroups.com>
References: <5565b149-48b7-4823-9363-89cfd70ecf09n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: TRUC and P2A for CTV fee management
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
	boundary="----=_Part_124570_16782658.1734750432479"
X-Original-Sender: alicexbtong@gmail.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)

------=_Part_124570_16782658.1734750432479
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_124571_1340124729.1734750432479"

------=_Part_124571_1340124729.1734750432479
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi stu,

Thanks for testing packages and P2A with CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY on signet.=20

This example in the README looks incorrect:

> ### Bumping Fee by Deducting Fee from CTV Output
> For some reason if you still wanted to pay the fee with just the ctv=20
ouput you could take it from the output value
> - [bump fee without extra input or child transaction: Parent Transaction=
=20
on Mempool=20
Space](https://mempool.space/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb90f7c4cc=
f77ee3a29e66d7effff4bb0682fb)

/dev/fd0
flopppy disk guy

On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 5:57:19=E2=80=AFAM UTC+5:30 stutxo wrote=
:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am trying to learn more about op_ctv (or its true name,=20
> op_securethebag). One thing I keep hearing is that estimating fees are=20
> potentially an issue when spending CTV transactions.=20
>
> jamesob mentioned fees in his simple_ctv_valut=20
> <https://github.com/jamesob/simple-ctv-vault>
>
> *Because coins may remain vaulted for long periods of time, the unvault=
=20
> process is sensitive to changes in the fee market. Because use of OP_CTV=
=20
> requires precommiting to a tree of all possible specific outputs and the=
=20
> number of inputs, we cannot use RBF to dynamically adjust feerate of=20
> unvaulting transactions.*
> and rustyrussell on nostr also mentioned fees being a problem=20
> <https://primal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fcyshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj=
7c9zxsu8a2mw>
> =20
> *Optimised sponsors for solving the "but how do I add fees" problem in a=
=20
> way that doesn't drive miner centralisation.*
>
> With v3 transactions available in bitcoin 28.0=20
> <https://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-wallet-integration-guide/>ther=
e=20
> are a bunch of new techniques that have been enabled that we can use to=
=20
> hopefully solve these issues
>
> As long as you have an output for 240 sats paying to a P2A address, such=
=20
> as tb1pfees9rn5nz on signet, you or anyone else will be able to bump the=
=20
> fees using CPFP on the anchor output.=20
>
> I have some examples of these transactions here on signet
>
> CTV spend transaction with zero fees:
>
> https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f16087713=
e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3
>
> P2A CPFP transaction:
>
> https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2f=
f216badf041bf4572c0d03b
>
> Code used is here:
> https://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv
>
> Is there anything I am missing here? What are the downsides of this=20
> method? Is this how most ctv scripts spends would work?
>
> Thanks!
> stu
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
fff33085-ca24-4553-9fa8-de8d60e8a9bfn%40googlegroups.com.

------=_Part_124571_1340124729.1734750432479
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi stu,<div><br /></div><div>Thanks for testing packages and P2A with CHECK=
TEMPLATEVERIFY on signet.=C2=A0<br /><br />This example in the README looks=
 incorrect:</div><div><br />&gt; ### Bumping Fee by Deducting Fee from CTV =
Output<br />&gt; For some reason if you still wanted to pay the fee with ju=
st the ctv ouput you could take it from the output value<br />&gt; - [bump =
fee without extra input or child transaction: Parent Transaction on Mempool=
 Space](https://mempool.space/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb90f7c4c=
cf77ee3a29e66d7effff4bb0682fb)<br /><br />/dev/fd0</div><div>flopppy disk g=
uy</div><div><br /></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 5:57:19=E2=80=AFAM UTC+5=
:30 stutxo wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1=
ex;">Hi everyone,<div><br>I am trying to learn more about op_ctv (or its tr=
ue name, op_securethebag). One thing I keep hearing is that estimating fees=
 are potentially an issue when spending CTV transactions.=C2=A0<br><i><br><=
/i>jamesob=C2=A0mentioned fees in his <a href=3D"https://github.com/jamesob=
/simple-ctv-vault" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=
=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/jamesob/s=
imple-ctv-vault&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOv=
Vaw0IPgOO2E55h8R_jHkljoHK">simple_ctv_valut</a><i><br>Because coins may rem=
ain vaulted for long periods of time, the unvault process is sensitive to c=
hanges in the fee market. Because use of OP_CTV requires precommiting to a =
tree of all possible specific outputs and the number of inputs, we cannot u=
se RBF to dynamically adjust feerate of unvaulting transactions.<br></i><br=
>and rustyrussell on nostr also mentioned fees being a <a href=3D"https://p=
rimal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fcyshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj7c9zxsu8a2mw=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.go=
ogle.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://primal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fc=
yshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj7c9zxsu8a2mw&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836=
641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0wQbbQkCc3M77brYdfqCFj">problem</a>=C2=A0<br><i>O=
ptimised sponsors for solving the &quot;but how do I add fees&quot; problem=
 in a way that doesn&#39;t drive miner centralisation.</i><br><br>With <a h=
ref=3D"https://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-wallet-integration-guide/"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.goo=
gle.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-walle=
t-integration-guide/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=
=3DAOvVaw3x8KdDjXC9K_grFUDq-4bq">v3 transactions available in bitcoin 28.0 =
</a>there are a bunch of new techniques that have been enabled that we can =
use to hopefully solve these issues</div><div><br>As long as you have an ou=
tput for 240 sats paying to a P2A address, such as tb1pfees9rn5nz on signet=
, you or anyone else will be able to bump the fees using CPFP on the anchor=
 output.=C2=A0</div><div><br>I have some examples of these transactions her=
e on signet</div><div><div><br>CTV spend transaction with zero fees:<br><a =
href=3D"https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f16=
087713e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-safe=
redirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://mempool.s=
pace/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f16087713e0e3e42352021e6bf38=
00e3&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1W6rYkJw=
lTI3QwCUmKSNZs">https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11=
a6ca7f16087713e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3</a></div><div><br>P2A CPFP transactio=
n:<br><a href=3D"https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf=
8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf041bf4572c0d03b" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" =
data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://=
mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf04=
1bf4572c0d03b&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVa=
w3ND5pILQ14ITXqckB0yMTC">https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff=
8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf041bf4572c0d03b</a></div><div><br></div><div=
>Code used is here:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv" tar=
get=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.=
com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv&amp;source=3Dg=
mail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3e85vutqZ5-iChV24uxkJE">htt=
ps://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv</a></div><br>Is there anything I am missi=
ng here? What are the downsides of this method? Is this how most ctv script=
s spends would work?</div><div><br>Thanks!<br>stu</div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/fff33085-ca24-4553-9fa8-de8d60e8a9bfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_med=
ium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind=
ev/fff33085-ca24-4553-9fa8-de8d60e8a9bfn%40googlegroups.com</a>.<br />

------=_Part_124571_1340124729.1734750432479--

------=_Part_124570_16782658.1734750432479--