Delivery-date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 20:42:15 -0800
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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:07:12 -0800 (PST)
From: /dev /fd0 <alicexbtong@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: TRUC and P2A for CTV fee management
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Hi stu,

Thanks for testing packages and P2A with CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY on signet.=20

This example in the README looks incorrect:

> ### Bumping Fee by Deducting Fee from CTV Output
> For some reason if you still wanted to pay the fee with just the ctv=20
ouput you could take it from the output value
> - [bump fee without extra input or child transaction: Parent Transaction=
=20
on Mempool=20
Space](https://mempool.space/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb90f7c4cc=
f77ee3a29e66d7effff4bb0682fb)

/dev/fd0
flopppy disk guy

On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 5:57:19=E2=80=AFAM UTC+5:30 stutxo wrote=
:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am trying to learn more about op_ctv (or its true name,=20
> op_securethebag). One thing I keep hearing is that estimating fees are=20
> potentially an issue when spending CTV transactions.=20
>
> jamesob mentioned fees in his simple_ctv_valut=20
> <https://github.com/jamesob/simple-ctv-vault>
>
> *Because coins may remain vaulted for long periods of time, the unvault=
=20
> process is sensitive to changes in the fee market. Because use of OP_CTV=
=20
> requires precommiting to a tree of all possible specific outputs and the=
=20
> number of inputs, we cannot use RBF to dynamically adjust feerate of=20
> unvaulting transactions.*
> and rustyrussell on nostr also mentioned fees being a problem=20
> <https://primal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fcyshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj=
7c9zxsu8a2mw>
> =20
> *Optimised sponsors for solving the "but how do I add fees" problem in a=
=20
> way that doesn't drive miner centralisation.*
>
> With v3 transactions available in bitcoin 28.0=20
> <https://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-wallet-integration-guide/>ther=
e=20
> are a bunch of new techniques that have been enabled that we can use to=
=20
> hopefully solve these issues
>
> As long as you have an output for 240 sats paying to a P2A address, such=
=20
> as tb1pfees9rn5nz on signet, you or anyone else will be able to bump the=
=20
> fees using CPFP on the anchor output.=20
>
> I have some examples of these transactions here on signet
>
> CTV spend transaction with zero fees:
>
> https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f16087713=
e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3
>
> P2A CPFP transaction:
>
> https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2f=
f216badf041bf4572c0d03b
>
> Code used is here:
> https://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv
>
> Is there anything I am missing here? What are the downsides of this=20
> method? Is this how most ctv scripts spends would work?
>
> Thanks!
> stu
>

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Hi stu,<div><br /></div><div>Thanks for testing packages and P2A with CHECK=
TEMPLATEVERIFY on signet.=C2=A0<br /><br />This example in the README looks=
 incorrect:</div><div><br />&gt; ### Bumping Fee by Deducting Fee from CTV =
Output<br />&gt; For some reason if you still wanted to pay the fee with ju=
st the ctv ouput you could take it from the output value<br />&gt; - [bump =
fee without extra input or child transaction: Parent Transaction on Mempool=
 Space](https://mempool.space/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb90f7c4c=
cf77ee3a29e66d7effff4bb0682fb)<br /><br />/dev/fd0</div><div>flopppy disk g=
uy</div><div><br /></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 5:57:19=E2=80=AFAM UTC+5=
:30 stutxo wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1=
ex;">Hi everyone,<div><br>I am trying to learn more about op_ctv (or its tr=
ue name, op_securethebag). One thing I keep hearing is that estimating fees=
 are potentially an issue when spending CTV transactions.=C2=A0<br><i><br><=
/i>jamesob=C2=A0mentioned fees in his <a href=3D"https://github.com/jamesob=
/simple-ctv-vault" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=
=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/jamesob/s=
imple-ctv-vault&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOv=
Vaw0IPgOO2E55h8R_jHkljoHK">simple_ctv_valut</a><i><br>Because coins may rem=
ain vaulted for long periods of time, the unvault process is sensitive to c=
hanges in the fee market. Because use of OP_CTV requires precommiting to a =
tree of all possible specific outputs and the number of inputs, we cannot u=
se RBF to dynamically adjust feerate of unvaulting transactions.<br></i><br=
>and rustyrussell on nostr also mentioned fees being a <a href=3D"https://p=
rimal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fcyshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj7c9zxsu8a2mw=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.go=
ogle.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://primal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fc=
yshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj7c9zxsu8a2mw&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836=
641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0wQbbQkCc3M77brYdfqCFj">problem</a>=C2=A0<br><i>O=
ptimised sponsors for solving the &quot;but how do I add fees&quot; problem=
 in a way that doesn&#39;t drive miner centralisation.</i><br><br>With <a h=
ref=3D"https://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-wallet-integration-guide/"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.goo=
gle.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-walle=
t-integration-guide/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=
=3DAOvVaw3x8KdDjXC9K_grFUDq-4bq">v3 transactions available in bitcoin 28.0 =
</a>there are a bunch of new techniques that have been enabled that we can =
use to hopefully solve these issues</div><div><br>As long as you have an ou=
tput for 240 sats paying to a P2A address, such as tb1pfees9rn5nz on signet=
, you or anyone else will be able to bump the fees using CPFP on the anchor=
 output.=C2=A0</div><div><br>I have some examples of these transactions her=
e on signet</div><div><div><br>CTV spend transaction with zero fees:<br><a =
href=3D"https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f16=
087713e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-safe=
redirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://mempool.s=
pace/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f16087713e0e3e42352021e6bf38=
00e3&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1W6rYkJw=
lTI3QwCUmKSNZs">https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11=
a6ca7f16087713e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3</a></div><div><br>P2A CPFP transactio=
n:<br><a href=3D"https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf=
8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf041bf4572c0d03b" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" =
data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://=
mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf04=
1bf4572c0d03b&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVa=
w3ND5pILQ14ITXqckB0yMTC">https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff=
8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf041bf4572c0d03b</a></div><div><br></div><div=
>Code used is here:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv" tar=
get=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.=
com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv&amp;source=3Dg=
mail&amp;ust=3D1734836641633000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3e85vutqZ5-iChV24uxkJE">htt=
ps://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv</a></div><br>Is there anything I am missi=
ng here? What are the downsides of this method? Is this how most ctv script=
s spends would work?</div><div><br>Thanks!<br>stu</div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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