1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
|
Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <gappleto97@gmail.com>) id 1Z1lLz-0005SK-RO
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:55:51 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
designates 209.85.220.46 as permitted sender)
client-ip=209.85.220.46; envelope-from=gappleto97@gmail.com;
helo=mail-pa0-f46.google.com;
Received: from mail-pa0-f46.google.com ([209.85.220.46])
by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1Z1lLy-0005Oh-0A
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:55:51 +0000
Received: by pabqy3 with SMTP id qy3so84355131pab.3
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Sun, 07 Jun 2015 17:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.66.249.168 with SMTP id yv8mr25236404pac.49.1433724944192;
Sun, 07 Jun 2015 17:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.66.194.168 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Jun 2015 17:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CANJO25KvK9imRngtHTZdFMFHY8Ua-+D6gj+nfgXebBVBKVud4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <556CDB09.8050906@henricson.se>
<CANJO25KUvYNzGLDjr=d_gUSKe0xAju+34W9B6jmcSjQvGXR=2g@mail.gmail.com>
<CAEM=y+Xf9b1p-KB-PKzjtMirM8_WMbpMZuQyGyDv+6GM=0O9hA@mail.gmail.com>
<CANJO25K+tG3uH+GH8i4PBjdk8KyJZDAunfwMmWedOJyZOk7wNw@mail.gmail.com>
<CAM7BtUoMHE4EwJAFCfOino0UKU5B4-Wzswfvttqs8=mBayK1OA@mail.gmail.com>
<CANJO25L-r+3_kR8FD1EZ0F1_Cz9fUO5c8Fz=DW-yKZuONa4qkw@mail.gmail.com>
<CAM7BtUqN6rYrCrH6Ni5N+ENAwZ85YO53W0oEEkoqkBgsRPpinA@mail.gmail.com>
<CANJO25LUXBMxAGBruxt6kNkydfJZdJf_nuuvtO+fZ5CTEWV22g@mail.gmail.com>
<CAM7BtUr7XXT4vctroxcb7kqGu7faWx-KY-fK=KKac1d0bkcXYw@mail.gmail.com>
<CANJO25KvK9imRngtHTZdFMFHY8Ua-+D6gj+nfgXebBVBKVud4A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 20:55:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CANJO25+NufU1DeaXMi8QRx80D00ChFEHV8Fhw-LF0wms0jM+Mg@mail.gmail.com>
From: gabe appleton <gappleto97@gmail.com>
To: Pindar Wong <pindar.wong@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b111c0f011ae50517f71a13
X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(gappleto97[at]gmail.com)
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in
digit (gappleto97[at]gmail.com)
1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's domain
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1Z1lLy-0005Oh-0A
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Meta suggestions for this block size
debate
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:55:51 -0000
--047d7b111c0f011ae50517f71a13
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Just pushed the template for Arguments 3, 4, 6, and a full Argument 2.
Argument 5 should be pro, but is currently not defined. Argument 6 may be
merged with Argument 4 if you think that's necessary.
On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 2:41 AM, gabe appleton <gappleto97@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nothing to apologize for. And yes, that's the correct one.
> On Jun 6, 2015 2:39 AM, "Pindar Wong" <pindar.wong@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK... sorry for my confusion.
>>
>> https://github.com/EthanHeilman/BlockSizeDebate
>>
>> it is.
>>
>> p.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 2:37 PM, gabe appleton <gappleto97@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please use the one it's originally forked from that Ethan made. I don't
>>> want to be the one who sorts through what's valid and what isn't, as I
>>> don't have as low-level an understanding as I'd like. I don't feel
>>> qualified.
>>> On Jun 6, 2015 2:34 AM, "Pindar Wong" <pindar.wong@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Gabe.
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/gappleto97/BlockSizeDebate
>>>>
>>>> github's reachable via vpn.
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 2:28 PM, gabe appleton <gappleto97@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. We made a git repo instead, so we don't have to bother with the
>>>>> exclusive-by-default wiki policies. It's linked in this email chain.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be getting home tomorrow, so I should be able to start back up on
>>>>> this. A few days from now we should throw this on /r/Bitcoin so we can get
>>>>> some more public comment on it. They already gave me a few leads to chase.
>>>>> On Jun 5, 2015 11:34 PM, "Pindar Wong" <pindar.wong@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gabe,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you ever get an answer to this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I"ll have some time tomorrow to be able to help with some work on
>>>>>> this and will need to do it myself anyways since I'm not sure I understand
>>>>>> the nuances, where bitcoin XT fits into the scheme of things (or not) etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would have thought that there would be a testnet4 by now using 8mb
>>>>>> blocks... but hey that's just me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:52 AM, gabe appleton <gappleto97@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have permission to create a page. If someone else does, I'll
>>>>>>> happily get a framework started.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Ethan Heilman <eth3rs@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I second this, I don't have time to read the large number of emails
>>>>>>>> generated every day from the block size debate. A summary of the various
>>>>>>>> positions and arguments would be extremely helpful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 11:02 PM, gabe appleton <
>>>>>>>> gappleto97@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, can we try to get a wiki page for the debate? That way we
>>>>>>>>> could condense the information as much as possible. I'll be willing to
>>>>>>>>> assist if the page gets approval.
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 1, 2015 6:41 PM, "Mats Henricson" <mats@henricson.se>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My fingers have been itching many times now, this debate
>>>>>>>>>> drives me nuts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just wish all posters could follow two simple principles:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Read up. Yes. All of what has been written. Yes, it will
>>>>>>>>>> take many hours. But if you're rehashing what other
>>>>>>>>>> smarter people have said over and over before, you're
>>>>>>>>>> wasting hundreds of peoples time. Please don't.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Be helpful. Suggest alternatives. Just cristizising is
>>>>>>>>>> just destructive. If you want no change, then say so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mats
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>>>>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
--047d7b111c0f011ae50517f71a13
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just pushed the template for Arguments 3, 4, 6, and a full=
Argument 2.=C2=A0 Argument 5 should be pro, but is currently not defined. =
Argument 6 may be merged with Argument 4 if you think that's necessary.=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun=
6, 2015 at 2:41 AM, gabe appleton <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:=
gappleto97@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gappleto97@gmail.com</a>></span>=
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Nothing to apologi=
ze for. And yes, that's the correct one. </p><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div=
class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 6, 2015 2:39 AM, "Pindar Wong" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:pindar.wong@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pindar.wong@=
gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>OK... sorry for my confusion.<br><br></div>=
<a href=3D"https://github.com/EthanHeilman/BlockSizeDebate" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://github.com/EthanHeilman/BlockSizeDebate</a><br><br></div><div>it=
is.<br><br></div>p.<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 2:37 PM, gabe appleton <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:gappleto97@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gapplet=
o97@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p di=
r=3D"ltr">Please use the one it's originally forked from that Ethan mad=
e. I don't want to be the one who sorts through what's valid and wh=
at isn't, as I don't have as low-level an understanding as I'd =
like. I don't feel qualified. </p><div><div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 6, 2015 2:34 AM, "Pindar Wong" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:pindar.wong@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pindar.wong@=
gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thanks Gabe.<br><br><a href=3D"https://github.co=
m/gappleto97/BlockSizeDebate" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/gappleto=
97/BlockSizeDebate</a><br><br></div><div>github's reachable via vpn.<br=
><br></div>p.<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 2:28 PM, gabe appleton <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gappleto97@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gappleto97@gma=
il.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"lt=
r">Yeah. We made a git repo instead, so we don't have to bother with th=
e exclusive-by-default wiki policies. It's linked in this email chain. =
</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I'll be getting home tomorrow, so I should be able to st=
art back up on this. A few days from now we should throw this on /r/Bitcoin=
so we can get some more public comment on it. They already gave me a few l=
eads to chase.</p><div><div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 5, 2015 11:34 PM, "Pindar Wong"=
<<a href=3D"mailto:pindar.wong@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pindar.wong=
@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Gabe,<br><br></div>Did you ever get an ans=
wer to this?<br><br>I"ll have some time tomorrow to be able to help wi=
th some work on this and will need to do it myself anyways since I'm no=
t sure I understand the nuances, where bitcoin XT fits into the scheme of t=
hings (or not) etc.<br><br></div><div>I would have thought that there would=
be a testnet4 by now using 8mb blocks... but hey that's just me. <br><=
br></div><div>p.<br><br></div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:52 AM, gabe appleton <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:gappleto97@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">gappleto97@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I don't have permission to create a page. If some=
one else does, I'll happily get a framework started.</div><div><div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 =
at 11:32 PM, Ethan Heilman <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:eth3rs@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">eth3rs@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I second this, I don't have =
time to read the large number of emails generated every day from the block =
size debate. A summary of the various positions and arguments would be extr=
emely helpful.=C2=A0</div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 11:02 PM, gabe appleton <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:gappleto97@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gapp=
leto97@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p=
dir=3D"ltr">Also, can we try to get a wiki page for the debate? That way w=
e could condense the information as much as possible. I'll be willing t=
o assist if the page gets approval. </p><div><div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 1, 2015 6:41 PM, "Mats Henricson&quo=
t; <<a href=3D"mailto:mats@henricson.se" target=3D"_blank">mats@henricso=
n.se</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
Hi!<br>
<br>
My fingers have been itching many times now, this debate<br>
drives me nuts.<br>
<br>
I just wish all posters could follow two simple principles:<br>
<br>
1. Read up. Yes. All of what has been written. Yes, it will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0take many hours. But if you're rehashing what other<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0smarter people have said over and over before, you're<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0wasting hundreds of peoples time. Please don't.<br>
<br>
2. Be helpful. Suggest alternatives. Just cristizising is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0just destructive. If you want no change, then say so.<br>
<br>
Mats<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div><br>-----------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>-----------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
--047d7b111c0f011ae50517f71a13--
|
