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From: Chris Riley <criley@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:28:03 -0500
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To: Teweldemedhin Aberra <teweldemat@gmail.com>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Hi,
1. If there are 16.4 million mined and 4 million are lost, that results in
12.4 million in circulation vs 14.4 million.
2. Satoshi addressed this as have numerous other people (
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198.msg1647#msg1647 ) - lost coins
decrease supply, increasing value of the remaining coins.
3. This assumes this is a problem.  Bitcoin is divisible, 100 million,
potentially more if necessary. (
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Help:FAQ#How_divisible_are_bitcoins.3F)
4. Why is it okay to steal bitcoins from people who's bitcoins have been
"dormant" for a fixed period, 10 years in your example?
5. What happens to bitcoins that, say, Hal Finney still had (if any) and he
put in cold storage while he is in ultimate cold storage (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Finney_(computer_scientist)#Death) ?
Ditto for someone, say, in a coma for 11 years, in jail for 11 years or any
other similar event?  Or a 20 year old sets aside coins for retirement.
The following year, the system is changed, and when he looks again after
not paying attention for a decade or two, they are gone.
6. This encourages censorship by miners for people attempting to move coins.
7. This has been discussed many times before and everyone is welcome to
fork bitcoin code and the block chain and convince people to follow this
chain and code.  Then you can see if you can get many people to agree that
this is a good idea.








On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Teweldemedhin Aberra via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> It is estimated that about 4 million of the about 16.4 Bitcoins ever mined
> are lost forever because no one knows the private keys of some Bitcoin
> addresses. This effectively mean there are actually only 14.4 million
> Bitcoins in circulation even though 16.4 million are mined. There is no way
> of eliminating the human errors that cause these losses of Bitcoin from
> circulation, while the number of Bitcoin that will ever be mined is capped
> at 21 million. This means the total number of Bitcoins that are in
> circulation will eventually become zero, bringing the network to an end.
>
> The solution this BIP proposes is to implementing a dead man's switch to
> Bitcoin addresses. The dead man's switch causes the Bitcoins assigned to
> dormant addresses to automatically expire. A Bitcoin address is deemed
> dormant if it is not used in transactions for some fixed length of time,
> say ten years.
>
> The calculation of the miner's reward should take into account the
> Bitcoins that has expired. This means there is a possibility that miner's
> reward can increase if sufficient number of Bitcoins expire.
>
> Ref:
>
> http://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
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> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

--94eb2c0c100648f36f056014b4ef
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<div>1. If there are 16.4 million mined and 4 million a=
re lost, that results in 12.4 million in circulation vs 14.4 million.</div>=
<div>2. Satoshi addressed this as have numerous other people (<a href=3D"ht=
tps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D198.msg1647#msg1647">https://bitcoi=
ntalk.org/index.php?topic=3D198.msg1647#msg1647</a> ) - lost coins decrease=
 supply, increasing value of the remaining coins.</div><div>3. This assumes=
 this is a problem.=C2=A0 Bitcoin is divisible, 100 million, potentially mo=
re if necessary. (<a href=3D"https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Help:FAQ#How_divisi=
ble_are_bitcoins.3F">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Help:FAQ#How_divisible_are_=
bitcoins.3F</a>)</div><div>4. Why is it okay to steal bitcoins from people =
who&#39;s bitcoins have been &quot;dormant&quot; for a fixed period, 10 yea=
rs in your example?</div><div>5. What happens to bitcoins that, say, Hal Fi=
nney still had (if any) and he put in cold storage while he is in ultimate =
cold storage (<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Finney_(computer=
_scientist)#Death">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Finney_(computer_scien=
tist)#Death</a>)=C2=A0?=C2=A0 Ditto for someone, say, in a coma for 11 year=
s, in jail for 11 years or any other similar event?=C2=A0 Or a 20 year old =
sets aside coins for retirement.=C2=A0 The following year, the system is ch=
anged, and when he looks again after not paying attention for a decade or t=
wo, they are gone.</div><div>6. This encourages censorship by miners for pe=
ople attempting to move coins.</div><div>7. This has been discussed many ti=
mes before and everyone is welcome to fork bitcoin code and the block chain=
 and convince people to follow this chain and code.=C2=A0 Then you can see =
if you can get many people to agree that this is a good idea.<br></div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Teweldemedhin Aberra via=
 bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linu=
xfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><spa=
n id=3D"m_2495265241835744459gmail-docs-internal-guid-fd2261ae-46a0-8c9a-b9=
ce-84c93fc1115a"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;ma=
rgin-bottom:3pt"><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,=
0);font-family:Arial;font-size:11pt;white-space:pre-wrap">It is estimated t=
hat about 4 million of the about 16.4 Bitcoins ever mined are lost forever =
because no one knows the private keys of some Bitcoin addresses. This effec=
tively mean there are actually only 14.4 million Bitcoins in circulation ev=
en though 16.4 million are mined. There is no way of eliminating the human =
errors that cause these losses of Bitcoin from circulation, while the numbe=
r of Bitcoin that will ever be mined is capped at 21 million. This means th=
e total number of Bitcoins that are in circulation will eventually become z=
ero, bringing the network to an end.</span><br></p><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"=
line-height:1.38;margin-top:10pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The solution this BIP proposes is=
 to implementing a dead man&#39;s switch to Bitcoin addresses. The dead man=
&#39;s switch causes the Bitcoins assigned to dormant addresses to automati=
cally expire. A Bitcoin address is deemed dormant if it is not used in tran=
sactions for some fixed length of time, say ten years.</span></p><p dir=3D"=
ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:10pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tr=
ansparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The calculation of =
the miner&#39;s reward should take into account the Bitcoins that has expir=
ed. This means there is a possibility that miner&#39;s reward can increase =
if sufficient number of Bitcoins expire.</span></p><br><p dir=3D"ltr" style=
=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:10pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Ref: </span></p><p dir=3D"ltr=
" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:10pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:tran=
sparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><a href=3D"http://for=
tune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/" target=3D"_blank">http://fortune.com/20=
17/11/25/<wbr>lost-bitcoins/</a></span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size:11=
pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div></span></div><div id=
=3D"m_2495265241835744459DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style=3D"border-top:1px solid #d3d4de">
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bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
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