1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
|
Return-Path: <runesvend@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 276DD71
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 10 Aug 2015 05:57:33 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-la0-f53.google.com (mail-la0-f53.google.com
[209.85.215.53])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D43E47D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 10 Aug 2015 05:57:31 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by lalv9 with SMTP id v9so5305164lal.0
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:57:30 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to;
bh=9wuA2eSPAmxuYo/MhOKbkvD7+x0hejMZBtxl3GlUx8U=;
b=UbyB1LKbkUJapuKHEncJY0oWDkL0hgqv+x6q5kR80XDuYlfcwJzq2QxZtUEIM4cjAC
9TDzN5eQO1P2czzVak5Ca28NTU0mFJrdb8Ewga1ivMpmYTVq+xz7vQFGiiXJZydFxC+e
t04myzGenK3r10hIIm2JDrIRLuzvTGp4EHB9nmjZNruJnue9ABdqZs8w2+e4Ft2Eg4g0
+C4XH5W5rrHm4twl2yNQTPcajG4Z+Ra9mlmTxF+HPy8B97LhgHg+jCUFGqogsM2CWm/r
odMkG364TriFFNxzUPf+Oxe7z5Avc7GCnMbCwEwUTTGUofh9Rylcl/EiCfEdyo58Gt0U
OrAg==
X-Received: by 10.112.145.201 with SMTP id sw9mr18736032lbb.25.1439186249883;
Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.31] ([212.60.121.11])
by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id dj1sm312038lac.3.2015.08.09.22.57.28
(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: "Rune K. Svendsen" <runesvend@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: iPad Mail (12H143)
In-Reply-To: <55C7D234.1040306@bitmarkets.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 07:57:30 +0200
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <567909F0-F686-4B38-A745-637423E12311@gmail.com>
References: <55C7D234.1040306@bitmarkets.net>
To: "info@bitmarkets.net" <info@bitmarkets.net>
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Off-chain transactions and miner fees
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 05:57:33 -0000
Nodes in the Lightning network earn fees that wouldn't be there if it weren'=
t for the Lightning network. The base Bitcoin layer can't handle the transac=
tion throughout that Lightning can, so the Lightning fees were never availab=
le to Bitcoin miners in the first place.
What Lightning does is raise the value of a transaction on the block chain. I=
magine you're a Lightning node, and in order to collect your fees, that you'=
ve earned over the past month, you have to settle on the blockchain. If you'=
ve earned, say, 0.5 BTC in fees, you can attach a huge 0.005 BTC fee to the B=
itcoin settlement transaction. The miners earn a larger fee, and you make su=
re your transaction gets into the blockchain quickly, and you can afford to p=
ay this fee because you've made much more on the Lightning transactions you'=
ve routed.
/Rune
> Den 10/08/2015 kl. 00.20 skrev info--- via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org>:
>=20
> Hello all,
>=20
> one argument I often read on this mailing list is that it's essential to
> reward miners with transaction fees at some point to secure the network.
>=20
> Off-chain transactions, whether it's Lightning or something else,
> potentially extract fees, which may otherwise be paid to miners, if the
> transactions were actually on-chain.
>=20
> In this context, wouldn't it be contradictory, maybe even harmful, to
> aim for an environment, where some/many/most transactions are off-chain?
>=20
> I have not yet seen this conflict addressed in the recent discussions.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
|
