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From: "Rune K. Svendsen" <runesvend@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <55C7D234.1040306@bitmarkets.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 07:57:30 +0200
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Message-Id: <567909F0-F686-4B38-A745-637423E12311@gmail.com>
References: <55C7D234.1040306@bitmarkets.net>
To: "info@bitmarkets.net" <info@bitmarkets.net>
Cc: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
	<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Off-chain transactions and miner fees
Precedence: list

Nodes in the Lightning network earn fees that wouldn't be there if it weren'=
t for the Lightning network. The base Bitcoin layer can't handle the transac=
tion throughout that Lightning can, so the Lightning fees were never availab=
le to Bitcoin miners in the first place.

What Lightning does is raise the value of a transaction on the block chain. I=
magine you're a Lightning node, and in order to collect your fees, that you'=
ve earned over the past month, you have to settle on the blockchain. If you'=
ve earned, say, 0.5 BTC in fees, you can attach a huge 0.005 BTC fee to the B=
itcoin settlement transaction. The miners earn a larger fee, and you make su=
re your transaction gets into the blockchain quickly, and you can afford to p=
ay this fee because you've made much more on the Lightning transactions you'=
ve routed.

/Rune


> Den 10/08/2015 kl. 00.20 skrev info--- via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org>:
>=20
> Hello all,
>=20
> one argument I often read on this mailing list is that it's essential to
> reward miners with transaction fees at some point to secure the network.
>=20
> Off-chain transactions, whether it's Lightning or something else,
> potentially extract fees, which may otherwise be paid to miners, if the
> transactions were actually on-chain.
>=20
> In this context, wouldn't it be contradictory, maybe even harmful, to
> aim for an environment, where some/many/most transactions are off-chain?
>=20
> I have not yet seen this conflict addressed in the recent discussions.
>=20
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