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Subject: [Bitcoin-development] BIP 20 Rejected, process for BIP 21N
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Regarding the decimal vs satoshi notation I see a few problems with satoshi:
* readability - humans reading the URI would expect it to accurately
reflect what is being displayed (subject to internationalisation issues)
For example, amount=1.234 is more human readable than amount=123400000 (ish)
* backwards compatibility - existing software already uses the decimal
notation
* forwards compatibility - Bitcoin needs to move beyond the satoshi to 20
dps for some reason, this remains OK within the existing schema, but forces
decimals into the satoshi scheme
* simplicity - dual decimal/satoshi variants should be discouraged under
the "single representation" approach
It's relatively straightforward to convert a string encoded decimal into an
internal integer for currency calculations just by applying a multiplying
factor. One never uses doubles or floats for money.
On 31 January 2012 14:33, slush <slush@centrum.cz> wrote:
> Hi Amir,
>
> > All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers alone. I see no
> reason for breaking with tradition.
>
> excuse me if it was already discussed, but maybe using satoshis instead of
> decimal bitcoin would be better choice? We all know about pains with proper
> handling decimal numbers across of all implementations - and it's not only
> about json-rpc.
>
> Otherwise I agree, BIP 21 is better than BIP 20 because it's easier to
> implement all points of the standard.
>
> Best,
> slush
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> BIP 20 really has no support among implementations such as Bitcoin-Qt,
>> Electrum, MultiBit or Bitcoin-JS. As the most active and visible user
>> facing GUI projects (all with some form of URI Scheme), their opinion
>> carries the most weight. To a lesser degree Bitcoin-Qt has the large
>> majority of users too (although that's a line of reasoning I'd discourage).
>>
>> Normally we should probably Reject BIP 21 and re-submit a new standard
>> (for history's sake), but as a) BIP 21 is largely a copy paste of BIP 20
>> sans some sections b) it is still a draft, probably the best thing here is
>> if you all agree on something to run it by BlueMatt and then we'll make it
>> the new BIP 21.
>>
>> I can see a consensus forming on most parts. Just the send private key is
>> contentious, and there's the topic of adding a time to expire field for
>> merchants (this is a very good idea IMO).
>>
>> Also BIP 20 is problematic because it is incompatible with about every
>> standard on the web. All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers
>> alone. I see no reason for breaking with tradition. Note that everytime I
>> have to write Color or Vectorize (as a British speaker) in my code, I die a
>> little inside. But it's convention and American English = International
>> English. Also it would be cool if all code used a *real* international
>> language (like Esperanto) but the world ain't perfect! We live in a
>> decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using God-worshipping world!
>>
>> (no offense to decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using
>> God-worshipping world- I do half those things too :)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--20cf305e2529f6157204b7d421c3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">Regarding the decimal vs satoshi notation I see =
a few problems with satoshi:<br><br>* readability - humans reading the URI =
would expect it to accurately reflect what is being displayed (subject to i=
nternationalisation issues) For example, amount=3D1.234 is more human reada=
ble than amount=3D123400000 (ish)<br>
* backwards compatibility - existing software already uses the decimal nota=
tion<br>* forwards compatibility - Bitcoin needs to move beyond the satoshi=
to 20 dps for some reason, this remains OK within the existing schema, but=
forces decimals into the satoshi scheme<br>
* simplicity - dual decimal/satoshi variants should be discouraged under th=
e "single representation" approach<br><br>It's relatively str=
aightforward to convert a string encoded decimal into an internal integer f=
or currency calculations just by applying a multiplying factor. One never u=
ses doubles or floats for money.<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 31 January 2012 14:33, slush <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:slush@centrum.cz" target=3D"_blank">slush@centr=
um.cz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex">
Hi Amir,<div><div><br></div><div><div>>=C2=A0=C2=A0All the HTML, URI and=
everything uses decimal numbers alone. I see no reason for breaking with t=
radition.=C2=A0</div></div><div><br></div></div><div>excuse me if it was al=
ready discussed, but maybe using satoshis instead of decimal bitcoin would =
be better choice? We all know about pains with proper handling decimal numb=
ers across of all implementations - and it's not only about json-rpc.</=
div>
<div><br></div><div>Otherwise I agree, BIP 21 is better than BIP 20 because=
it's easier to implement all points of the standard.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Best,</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div>slush</div>
</font></span><div><div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 31,=
2012 at 3:27 PM, Amir Taaki <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:zgenji=
x@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">zgenjix@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">BIP 20 really has no supp=
ort among implementations such as Bitcoin-Qt, Electrum, MultiBit or Bitcoin=
-JS. As the most active and visible user facing GUI projects (all with some=
form of URI Scheme), their opinion carries the most weight. To a lesser de=
gree Bitcoin-Qt has the large majority of users too (although that's a =
line of reasoning I'd discourage).<br>
<br>
Normally we should probably Reject BIP 21 and re-submit a new standard (for=
history's sake), but as a) BIP 21 is largely a copy paste of BIP 20 sa=
ns some sections b) it is still a draft, probably the best thing here is if=
you all agree on something to run it by BlueMatt and then we'll make i=
t the new BIP 21.<br>
<br>
I can see a consensus forming on most parts. Just the send private key is c=
ontentious, and there's the topic of adding a time to expire field for =
merchants (this is a very good idea IMO).<br>
<br>
Also BIP 20 is problematic because it is incompatible with about every stan=
dard on the web. All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers alon=
e. I see no reason for breaking with tradition. Note that everytime I have =
to write Color or Vectorize (as a British speaker) in my code, I die a litt=
le inside. But it's convention and American English =3D International E=
nglish. Also it would be cool if all code used a *real* international langu=
age (like Esperanto) but the world ain't perfect! We live in a decimal-=
counting English-speaking Windows-using God-worshipping world!<br>
<br>
(no offense to=C2=A0decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using God-wor=
shipping world- I do half those things too :)<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!<br>
The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers<br>
is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,<br=
>
Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.=
sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
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nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>-----------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------<br>
Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!<br>
The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers<br>
is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,<br=
>
Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.=
sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d</a><br>_________________________________________=
______<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
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" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></div><br>
--20cf305e2529f6157204b7d421c3--
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