1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
|
Return-Path: <pindar.wong@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FFC197
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 3 Aug 2015 01:21:29 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-lb0-f177.google.com (mail-lb0-f177.google.com
[209.85.217.177])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0155E8
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 3 Aug 2015 01:21:27 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by lblf12 with SMTP id f12so70186253lbl.2
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:21:26 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:cc:content-type;
bh=xhdeHVpW9TEi9H9C2q4EiSEahJ93FtOhSB1VYUztgII=;
b=qfVDu3izpDVw1xNVdAibSE+Zom8GKro+H8+fm9g6prRWVAFyA1V7dJFzHHEiEziEvv
O9XWx2ZrhdY1b+3iLWqzqOjsIIUSkRDNBsnhqQ9AT55d/XcdxzkqVxhELpVzpPosq2yW
UudeSsjI+DhMrBf8/QdGCHzOQLhgsZ1x5XxGY0+faNbAgNSfLzQJGGdoSMbTYOfHB0jB
Q6XGZNqaNhPbWdEwno4G1JSCcCBKyawFmzBe798iA2hKRNxPVQQ3zxy2fTlkhE/13SRn
4BP9SRr40bH6CEuVCu6nmc3BPbgs/I8Bfr2OJTnns3cA4ws9EiRvcinqn4wZVqd5RSsQ
ZNbA==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.112.168.102 with SMTP id zv6mr14456665lbb.45.1438564885864;
Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.152.133.84 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 18:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CANe1mWxsAPzWut_gDqe4R-SkDPBYM392NzeVqbUzjwh+pydsWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe1mWxsAPzWut_gDqe4R-SkDPBYM392NzeVqbUzjwh+pydsWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 08:21:25 +0700
Message-ID: <CAM7BtUo6M39TG_F0MC7tHYhpvg9whEj=qT3Dxj5yj0Lwa_ezOQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Pindar Wong <pindar.wong@gmail.com>
To: Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, T_REMOTE_IMAGE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A reason we can all agree on to increase block
size
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 01:21:29 -0000
--001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dear Jim,
Thank you for sharing your view w.r.t. the so called 'Chinese Miners'.
Diversity of opinion, and mining, are IMHO both good and it's indeed a
free world.... so others who wish to mine bitcoin should be encouraged to
make the capital and technical investments to do so.
May I ask what is your technical suggestion to move this discussion forward
beyond your anti-Chinese/anti-China rhetoric? e.g. I would be
particularly grateful if you could share your views w.r.t. colluding miner
attacks in draft 0.5.9. of Joseph Poon and Thaddeus Dryja's 'Lightning
network' paper, found here:-
http://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf
Respectfully,
p.
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> China is a communist country. It is no secret that all "capitalist"
> enterprises are essentially State controlled, or at the very least are
> subject to nationalization should the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC
> chips are manufactured in China, so they are cheap and accessible to
> Chinese miners. Electricity is subsidized and essentially free. Cooling is
> not an issue since large parts of China are mountainous and naturally cool.
> In short the Chinese miners have HUGE advantages over all other mining
> operations. This is probably why, between just the top 4 Chinese miners,
> the People's Republic of China effectively controls 57% of all the Bitcoin
> being mined.
>
> The ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with the rest
> of the world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest of the
> world, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block size
> would be detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has
> enough bandwidth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take
> advantage of that fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the
> Chinese.
>
> If you're truly worried about larger blocks causing centralization, think
> about how, by restricting blocksize, you're enabling the Communist Chinese
> government to maintain centralized control over 57% of the Bitcoin hashing
> power.
>
> --
> *James G. Phillips IV*
> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts>
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe>
>
> *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals."
> -- David Ogilvy*
>
> *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think
> twice before printing.*
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
--001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Dear Jim,<br><br></div>Thank you for sharing you=
r view w.r.t. the so called 'Chinese Miners'.=C2=A0 <br><br>Diversi=
ty of opinion, and mining, are IMHO both good and it's indeed a=C2=A0 f=
ree world.... so others who wish to mine bitcoin should be encouraged=C2=A0=
to make the capital and technical investments to do so. <br><br>May I ask =
what is your technical suggestion to move this discussion forward beyond yo=
ur anti-Chinese/anti-China rhetoric?=C2=A0=C2=A0 e.g. I would be particular=
ly grateful if you could share your=C2=A0 views w.r.t. colluding miner atta=
cks in draft 0.5.9. of Joseph Poon and Thaddeus Dryja's 'Lightning =
network' paper, found here:-<br><br><a href=3D"http://lightning.network=
/lightning-network-paper.pdf">http://lightning.network/lightning-network-pa=
per.pdf</a><br><br>Respectfully,<br><br>p.<br></div><div><div><br><br></div=
></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M=
on, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">=
<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>China is a communist country. =
It is no secret that all "capitalist" enterprises are essentially=
State controlled, or at the very least are subject to nationalization shou=
ld the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC chips are manufactured in China, =
so they are cheap and accessible to Chinese miners. Electricity is subsidiz=
ed and essentially free. Cooling is not an issue since large parts of China=
are mountainous and naturally cool. In short the Chinese miners have HUGE =
advantages over all other mining operations. This is probably why, between =
just the top 4 Chinese miners, the People's Republic of China effective=
ly controls 57% of all the Bitcoin being mined.</div><div><br></div><div>Th=
e ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with the rest of t=
he world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest of the wor=
ld, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block size would b=
e detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has enough bandw=
idth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take advantage of that =
fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the Chinese.</div><div=
><br></div><div>If you're truly worried about larger blocks causing cen=
tralization, think about how, by restricting blocksize, you're enabling=
the Communist Chinese government to maintain centralized control over 57% =
of the Bitcoin hashing power.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>--<div><b>=
James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107=
039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" target=3D"_blank"><img s=
rc=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"htt=
p://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn_Logo16px.png"></a><=
/div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><i>"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ba=
ll park. Aim for the company of immortals." -- David Ogilvy<br></i></f=
ont><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><img=
src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fugue/16/leaf.png">=C2=A0<em =
style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-=
serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This message was created with 100% recy=
cled electrons. Please think twice before printing.</em></font></div></div>=
</div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
--001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50--
|
