Return-Path: <pindar.wong@gmail.com> Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FFC197 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 01:21:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-lb0-f177.google.com (mail-lb0-f177.google.com [209.85.217.177]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0155E8 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 01:21:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lblf12 with SMTP id f12so70186253lbl.2 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:21:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=xhdeHVpW9TEi9H9C2q4EiSEahJ93FtOhSB1VYUztgII=; b=qfVDu3izpDVw1xNVdAibSE+Zom8GKro+H8+fm9g6prRWVAFyA1V7dJFzHHEiEziEvv O9XWx2ZrhdY1b+3iLWqzqOjsIIUSkRDNBsnhqQ9AT55d/XcdxzkqVxhELpVzpPosq2yW UudeSsjI+DhMrBf8/QdGCHzOQLhgsZ1x5XxGY0+faNbAgNSfLzQJGGdoSMbTYOfHB0jB Q6XGZNqaNhPbWdEwno4G1JSCcCBKyawFmzBe798iA2hKRNxPVQQ3zxy2fTlkhE/13SRn 4BP9SRr40bH6CEuVCu6nmc3BPbgs/I8Bfr2OJTnns3cA4ws9EiRvcinqn4wZVqd5RSsQ ZNbA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.168.102 with SMTP id zv6mr14456665lbb.45.1438564885864; Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.133.84 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 18:21:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <CANe1mWxsAPzWut_gDqe4R-SkDPBYM392NzeVqbUzjwh+pydsWQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <CANe1mWxsAPzWut_gDqe4R-SkDPBYM392NzeVqbUzjwh+pydsWQ@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 08:21:25 +0700 Message-ID: <CAM7BtUo6M39TG_F0MC7tHYhpvg9whEj=qT3Dxj5yj0Lwa_ezOQ@mail.gmail.com> From: Pindar Wong <pindar.wong@gmail.com> To: Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, T_REMOTE_IMAGE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A reason we can all agree on to increase block size X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 01:21:29 -0000 --001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Jim, Thank you for sharing your view w.r.t. the so called 'Chinese Miners'. Diversity of opinion, and mining, are IMHO both good and it's indeed a free world.... so others who wish to mine bitcoin should be encouraged to make the capital and technical investments to do so. May I ask what is your technical suggestion to move this discussion forward beyond your anti-Chinese/anti-China rhetoric? e.g. I would be particularly grateful if you could share your views w.r.t. colluding miner attacks in draft 0.5.9. of Joseph Poon and Thaddeus Dryja's 'Lightning network' paper, found here:- http://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf Respectfully, p. On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > China is a communist country. It is no secret that all "capitalist" > enterprises are essentially State controlled, or at the very least are > subject to nationalization should the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC > chips are manufactured in China, so they are cheap and accessible to > Chinese miners. Electricity is subsidized and essentially free. Cooling is > not an issue since large parts of China are mountainous and naturally cool. > In short the Chinese miners have HUGE advantages over all other mining > operations. This is probably why, between just the top 4 Chinese miners, > the People's Republic of China effectively controls 57% of all the Bitcoin > being mined. > > The ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with the rest > of the world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest of the > world, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block size > would be detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has > enough bandwidth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take > advantage of that fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the > Chinese. > > If you're truly worried about larger blocks causing centralization, think > about how, by restricting blocksize, you're enabling the Communist Chinese > government to maintain centralized control over 57% of the Bitcoin hashing > power. > > -- > *James G. Phillips IV* > <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe> > > *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals." > -- David Ogilvy* > > *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think > twice before printing.* > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Dear Jim,<br><br></div>Thank you for sharing you= r view w.r.t. the so called 'Chinese Miners'.=C2=A0 <br><br>Diversi= ty of opinion, and mining, are IMHO both good and it's indeed a=C2=A0 f= ree world.... so others who wish to mine bitcoin should be encouraged=C2=A0= to make the capital and technical investments to do so. <br><br>May I ask = what is your technical suggestion to move this discussion forward beyond yo= ur anti-Chinese/anti-China rhetoric?=C2=A0=C2=A0 e.g. I would be particular= ly grateful if you could share your=C2=A0 views w.r.t. colluding miner atta= cks in draft 0.5.9. of Joseph Poon and Thaddeus Dryja's 'Lightning = network' paper, found here:-<br><br><a href=3D"http://lightning.network= /lightning-network-paper.pdf">http://lightning.network/lightning-network-pa= per.pdf</a><br><br>Respectfully,<br><br>p.<br></div><div><div><br><br></div= ></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M= on, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">= <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bla= nk">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu= ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s= olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>China is a communist country. = It is no secret that all "capitalist" enterprises are essentially= State controlled, or at the very least are subject to nationalization shou= ld the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC chips are manufactured in China, = so they are cheap and accessible to Chinese miners. Electricity is subsidiz= ed and essentially free. Cooling is not an issue since large parts of China= are mountainous and naturally cool. In short the Chinese miners have HUGE = advantages over all other mining operations. This is probably why, between = just the top 4 Chinese miners, the People's Republic of China effective= ly controls 57% of all the Bitcoin being mined.</div><div><br></div><div>Th= e ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with the rest of t= he world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest of the wor= ld, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block size would b= e detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has enough bandw= idth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take advantage of that = fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the Chinese.</div><div= ><br></div><div>If you're truly worried about larger blocks causing cen= tralization, think about how, by restricting blocksize, you're enabling= the Communist Chinese government to maintain centralized control over 57% = of the Bitcoin hashing power.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>--<div><b>= James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107= 039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" target=3D"_blank"><img s= rc=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2=A0<a href= =3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"htt= p://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn_Logo16px.png"></a><= /div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><i>"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ba= ll park. Aim for the company of immortals." -- David Ogilvy<br></i></f= ont><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><img= src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fugue/16/leaf.png">=C2=A0<em = style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-= serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This message was created with 100% recy= cled electrons. Please think twice before printing.</em></font></div></div>= </div> </div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div> --001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50--