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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 08:21:25 +0700
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From: Pindar Wong <pindar.wong@gmail.com>
To: Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A reason we can all agree on to increase block
	size
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Dear Jim,

Thank you for sharing your view w.r.t. the so called 'Chinese Miners'.

Diversity of opinion, and mining, are IMHO both good and it's indeed a
free world.... so others who wish to mine bitcoin should be encouraged  to
make the capital and technical investments to do so.

May I ask what is your technical suggestion to move this discussion forward
beyond your anti-Chinese/anti-China rhetoric?   e.g. I would be
particularly grateful if you could share your  views w.r.t. colluding miner
attacks in draft 0.5.9. of Joseph Poon and Thaddeus Dryja's 'Lightning
network' paper, found here:-

http://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf

Respectfully,

p.



On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> China is a communist country. It is no secret that all "capitalist"
> enterprises are essentially State controlled, or at the very least are
> subject to nationalization should the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC
> chips are manufactured in China, so they are cheap and accessible to
> Chinese miners. Electricity is subsidized and essentially free. Cooling is
> not an issue since large parts of China are mountainous and naturally cool.
> In short the Chinese miners have HUGE advantages over all other mining
> operations. This is probably why, between just the top 4 Chinese miners,
> the People's Republic of China effectively controls 57% of all the Bitcoin
> being mined.
>
> The ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with the rest
> of the world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest of the
> world, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block size
> would be detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has
> enough bandwidth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take
> advantage of that fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the
> Chinese.
>
> If you're truly worried about larger blocks causing centralization, think
> about how, by restricting blocksize, you're enabling the Communist Chinese
> government to maintain centralized control over 57% of the Bitcoin hashing
> power.
>
> --
> *James G. Phillips IV*
> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts>
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe>
>
> *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals."
> -- David Ogilvy*
>
>  *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think
> twice before printing.*
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

--001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Dear Jim,<br><br></div>Thank you for sharing you=
r view w.r.t. the so called &#39;Chinese Miners&#39;.=C2=A0 <br><br>Diversi=
ty of opinion, and mining, are IMHO both good and it&#39;s indeed a=C2=A0 f=
ree world.... so others who wish to mine bitcoin should be encouraged=C2=A0=
 to make the capital and technical investments to do so. <br><br>May I ask =
what is your technical suggestion to move this discussion forward beyond yo=
ur anti-Chinese/anti-China rhetoric?=C2=A0=C2=A0 e.g. I would be particular=
ly grateful if you could share your=C2=A0 views w.r.t. colluding miner atta=
cks in draft 0.5.9. of Joseph Poon and Thaddeus Dryja&#39;s &#39;Lightning =
network&#39; paper, found here:-<br><br><a href=3D"http://lightning.network=
/lightning-network-paper.pdf">http://lightning.network/lightning-network-pa=
per.pdf</a><br><br>Respectfully,<br><br>p.<br></div><div><div><br><br></div=
></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M=
on, Aug 3, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>China is a communist country. =
It is no secret that all &quot;capitalist&quot; enterprises are essentially=
 State controlled, or at the very least are subject to nationalization shou=
ld the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC chips are manufactured in China, =
so they are cheap and accessible to Chinese miners. Electricity is subsidiz=
ed and essentially free. Cooling is not an issue since large parts of China=
 are mountainous and naturally cool. In short the Chinese miners have HUGE =
advantages over all other mining operations. This is probably why, between =
just the top 4 Chinese miners, the People&#39;s Republic of China effective=
ly controls 57% of all the Bitcoin being mined.</div><div><br></div><div>Th=
e ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with the rest of t=
he world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest of the wor=
ld, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block size would b=
e detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has enough bandw=
idth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take advantage of that =
fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the Chinese.</div><div=
><br></div><div>If you&#39;re truly worried about larger blocks causing cen=
tralization, think about how, by restricting blocksize, you&#39;re enabling=
 the Communist Chinese government to maintain centralized control over 57% =
of the Bitcoin hashing power.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>--<div><b>=
James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107=
039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" target=3D"_blank"><img s=
rc=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"htt=
p://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn_Logo16px.png"></a><=
/div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><i>&quot;Don&#39;t bunt. Aim out of the ba=
ll park. Aim for the company of immortals.&quot; -- David Ogilvy<br></i></f=
ont><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><img=
 src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fugue/16/leaf.png">=C2=A0<em =
style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-=
serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This message was created with 100% recy=
cled electrons. Please think twice before printing.</em></font></div></div>=
</div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c33d3202296c051c5dfd50--