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From: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>
To: Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>, Lonero Foundation
 <loneroassociation@gmail.com>, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
 <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Thread-Topic: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore
 for Energy Efficient Mining
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X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:40:47 +0000
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST
 Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
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Good Afternoon,

It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost o=
f mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it i=
s considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mine=
 but, since mining requires specific hardware and energy requirements it is=
 already a form of censorship where most on the planet except for the top 6=
% I am guessing here, cannot afford to mine. Without affecting the current =
algorithm, I have previously begun to explore the process by which mining c=
an be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to mi=
ne valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay the =
miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there are =
some ways that only a subset of miners can produce valid blocks for any giv=
en period, say for 12 months with four groups starting three months apart t=
o transition, and maybe limit mining to 50 people per continent to produce =
valid blocks at any one time. Possibly this requires a consortium to overse=
e the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, and would =
do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as we have see=
n previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banned entirely=
.

KING JAMES HRMH
Great British Empire

Regards,
The Australian
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
MR. Damian A. James Williamson
Wills

et al.


Willtech
www.willtech.com.au
www.go-overt.com
and other projects

earn.com/willtech
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson


m. 0487135719
f. +61261470192


This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this emai=
l if misdelivered.
________________________________
From: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on behalf=
 of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.or=
g>
Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM
To: Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datasto=
re for Energy Efficient Mining

Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate that my cryptography=
 proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also tackles problems su=
ch as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the BTC network could b=
e vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this=
 BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and ca=
n provide useful insight to the community. If things such as bigger block h=
eight have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very least an upgrade=
 regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at least warrant som=
e discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just let me know on the=
 preferred format?

Best regards, Andrew

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation <loneroassociation@gmail.co=
m<mailto:loneroassociation@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to renewables=
 or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the most out of y=
our hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness of it, but do=
 want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub=
 and just attach it as my proposal?

Best regards, Andrew

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net<mailto:c=
1.devrandom@niftybox.net>> wrote:
Hi Ryan and Andrew,

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@list=
s.linuxfoundation.org<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:

  https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
    "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
    on | 04 Aug 2015


Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market w=
ill tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.  It does not prove=
 that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.

Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and tha=
t we should move to other resources.  I would argue that the negative exter=
nalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the point =
is likely moot.


--_000_PS2P216MB0914F0B05E1AAB48D9A765609D6D9PS2P216MB0914KORP_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
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ttom:0;} </style>
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:Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;t=
ext-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">Good Aftern=
oon,</span>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<br>
</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost o=
f mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it i=
s considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mine=
 but, since mining requires specific
 hardware and energy requirements it is already a form of censorship where =
most on the planet except for the top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford =
to mine. Without affecting the current algorithm, I have previously begun t=
o explore the process by which mining
 can be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to =
mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay th=
e miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there ar=
e some ways that only a subset of
 miners can produce valid blocks for any given period, say for 12 months wi=
th four groups starting three months apart to transition, and maybe limit m=
ining to 50 people per continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. P=
ossibly this requires a consortium
 to oversee the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, =
and would do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as w=
e have seen previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banne=
d entirely.</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<br>
</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
KING JAMES HRMH</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
Great British Empire</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<br>
</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
Regards,</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
The Australian</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; HMRH)</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British Empire</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
MR. Damian A. James Williamson</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
Wills</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<br>
</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
et al.</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<br>
</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
&nbsp;</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
Willtech</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<a href=3D"www.willtech.com.au" style=3D"color:rgb(27, 106, 203);cursor:tex=
t">www.willtech.com.au</a></div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<a href=3D"www.go-overt.com" style=3D"color:rgb(27, 106, 203);cursor:text">=
www.go-overt.com</a></div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
and other projects</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
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&nbsp;</div>
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Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
earn.com/willtech</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson</div>
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m. 0487135719</div>
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f. +61261470192</div>
<div data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:=
Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;te=
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xt-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">
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<span data-evo-paragraph=3D"" style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family=
:Cantarell;font-size:14.666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;t=
ext-align:left;widows:auto;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">This email =
does not constitute a general advice.
 Please disregard this email if misdelivered.</span>
<div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> bitcoin-dev &lt;bit=
coin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org&gt; on behalf of Lonero Foundati=
on via bitcoin-dev &lt;bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Devrandom &lt;c1.devrandom@niftybox.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bitcoin Protocol Discussion &lt;bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundatio=
n.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST =
Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate th=
at my cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also t=
ackles problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the B=
TC network could be vulnerable to
 in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this BIP because it=
 tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and can provide usefu=
l insight to the community. If things such as bigger block height have been=
 proposed as hard forks, I feel
 at the very least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptogra=
phy does at least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my=
 BIP, just let me know on the preferred format?
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Loner=
o Foundation &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loneroassociation@gmail.com">loneroassoc=
iation@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left=
:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in reg=
ards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get=
 the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrari=
ness of it, but do want to still propose
 a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as=
 my proposal?
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devra=
ndom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c1.devrandom@niftybox.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">c1.devrandom@niftybox.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left=
:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hi Ryan and Andrew,<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan=
 Grant via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat=
ion.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin=
-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/</a><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work&quot;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; on | 04 Aug 2015<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining mar=
ket will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.&nbsp; It does=
 not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities an=
d that we should move to other resources.&nbsp; I would argue that the nega=
tive externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so =
the point is likely moot.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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