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boundary="_000_PS2P216MB0914F0B05E1AAB48D9A765609D6D9PS2P216MB0914KORP_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: HK2APC01FT032.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 853cf818-36d1-4552-fe8e-08d8e6e5b944 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Mar 2021 12:36:00.2451 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK2APC01HT021 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:40:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 12:36:30 -0000 --_000_PS2P216MB0914F0B05E1AAB48D9A765609D6D9PS2P216MB0914KORP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Afternoon, It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost o= f mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it i= s considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mine= but, since mining requires specific hardware and energy requirements it is= already a form of censorship where most on the planet except for the top 6= % I am guessing here, cannot afford to mine. Without affecting the current = algorithm, I have previously begun to explore the process by which mining c= an be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to mi= ne valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay the = miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there are = some ways that only a subset of miners can produce valid blocks for any giv= en period, say for 12 months with four groups starting three months apart t= o transition, and maybe limit mining to 50 people per continent to produce = valid blocks at any one time. Possibly this requires a consortium to overse= e the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, and would = do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as we have see= n previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banned entirely= . KING JAMES HRMH Great British Empire Regards, The Australian LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire MR. Damian A. James Williamson Wills et al. Willtech www.willtech.com.au www.go-overt.com and other projects earn.com/willtech linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson m. 0487135719 f. +61261470192 This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this emai= l if misdelivered. ________________________________ From: bitcoin-dev on behalf= of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM To: Devrandom Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datasto= re for Energy Efficient Mining Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate that my cryptography= proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also tackles problems su= ch as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the BTC network could b= e vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this= BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and ca= n provide useful insight to the community. If things such as bigger block h= eight have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very least an upgrade= regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at least warrant som= e discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just let me know on the= preferred format? Best regards, Andrew On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation > wrote: Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to renewables= or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the most out of y= our hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness of it, but do= want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub= and just attach it as my proposal? Best regards, Andrew On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom > wrote: Hi Ryan and Andrew, On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev > wrote: https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work" on | 04 Aug 2015 Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market w= ill tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward. It does not prove= that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost. Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and tha= t we should move to other resources. I would argue that the negative exter= nalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the point = is likely moot. --_000_PS2P216MB0914F0B05E1AAB48D9A765609D6D9PS2P216MB0914KORP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good Aftern= oon,

It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost o= f mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it i= s considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mine= but, since mining requires specific hardware and energy requirements it is already a form of censorship where = most on the planet except for the top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford = to mine. Without affecting the current algorithm, I have previously begun t= o explore the process by which mining can be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to = mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay th= e miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there ar= e some ways that only a subset of miners can produce valid blocks for any given period, say for 12 months wi= th four groups starting three months apart to transition, and maybe limit m= ining to 50 people per continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. P= ossibly this requires a consortium to oversee the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, = and would do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as w= e have seen previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banne= d entirely.

KING JAMES HRMH
Great British Empire

Regards,
The Australian
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
MR. Damian A. James Williamson
Wills

et al.

 
Willtech
and other projects
 
earn.com/willtech
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson


m. 0487135719
f. +61261470192


This email = does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this email if misdelivered.
From: bitcoin-dev <bit= coin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on behalf of Lonero Foundati= on via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM
To: Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundatio= n.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST = Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
 
Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate th= at my cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also t= ackles problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the B= TC network could be vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this BIP because it= tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and can provide usefu= l insight to the community. If things such as bigger block height have been= proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptogra= phy does at least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my= BIP, just let me know on the preferred format?

Best regards, Andrew

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Loner= o Foundation <loneroassoc= iation@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in reg= ards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get= the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrari= ness of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as= my proposal?

Best regards, Andrew

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devra= ndom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net> wrote:
Hi Ryan and Andrew,

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan= Grant via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin= -dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

  https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
    "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
    on | 04 Aug 2015


Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining mar= ket will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.  It does= not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.

Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities an= d that we should move to other resources.  I would argue that the nega= tive externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so = the point is likely moot. 

--_000_PS2P216MB0914F0B05E1AAB48D9A765609D6D9PS2P216MB0914KORP_--