1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
|
Return-Path: <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB6AE7AF
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:42:18 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from st11p02im-asmtp001.me.com (st11p02im-asmtp001.me.com
[17.172.220.113])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A07EA9
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:42:18 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from [10.52.6.2] (unknown [101.78.135.131])
by st11p02im-asmtp001.me.com
(Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31
2015))
with ESMTPSA id <0NRY00F2NY2DN510@st11p02im-asmtp001.me.com> for
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org;
Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:42:17 +0000 (GMT)
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure
engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151,1.0.33,0.0.0000
definitions=2015-07-24_01:2015-07-22, 2015-07-23,
1970-01-01 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0
suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam
adjust=0
reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000
definitions=main-1507240022
Sun-Java-System-SMTP-Warning: Lines longer than SMTP allows found and wrapped.
Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312
MIME-version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Jean-Paul Kogelman <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12H143)
In-reply-to: <0E15E07E-E21C-4541-869A-3C34CBA35774@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:42:12 +0800
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Message-id: <9AC88C7C-4BA4-4DF2-913F-9DC6874BD19D@me.com>
References: <CAPg+sBgs-ouEMu=LOVCmOyCGwfM1Ygxooz0shyvAuHDGGZYfJw@mail.gmail.com>
<CABm2gDq3JyZx0QCRDbcNSLSOBKdpi4h_7VN1XL8N42U38+eBAA@mail.gmail.com>
<55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com>
<CABsx9T1MTc-GmuQyFN1vaFK=CDWV_L214Pi9nR6jLMouQQD0fw@mail.gmail.com>
<C5A70F53-4779-457A-A06A-686877706F89@gmail.com>
<CADL_X_exckh5T2BfzPEp26fPR3TD69QarwroDEdS_9wtnKbf+g@mail.gmail.com>
<6F436293-9E2B-461C-B105-FC4CF9EBFC69@gmail.com>
<CADL_X_fs3-Zj-9nHu5HXCS=kNFUTJkrUR_8SL+d+M4ziwB66Jw@mail.gmail.com>
<CABm2gDqFe+_g5Mk=tXCD94x74pu6SiL+XHhMM-T3bBw78m3Mow@mail.gmail.com>
<D161F6BB-BFB1-4B9F-B024-D60A170F393C@gmail.com>
<CALqmWPC8PdSPS3chhnjBaTixrvvg0VrEaXzd3OvbXifkMs0DUw@mail.gmail.com>
<42BF7FEB-320F-43BE-B3D9-1D76CB8B9975@gmai> <l.com@mac.com>
<D472C05D-7164-4ED1-B571-94415AD8E60F@gmail.com>
<346D4CE0-E00D-4ABB-B131-EFA1416CB20C@me.com>
<29363BE6-72A7-4D06-A974-C52BA12FD8BD@gmail.com>
<55FFBC8F-A3C9-4109-89C7-AC359FBBD478@me.com>
<4734381C-2000-4D9B-9099-DDE3D38D64A3@me.com>
<DEF9C610-2FBC-40C1-9AFA-9E91903C7F96@petertodd.org>
<DFA3CCE4-52F7-4D63-8982-2EB133AB6EAA@me.com>
<B8F9DE4B-A8AA-490D-991B-11C28B2AA527@gmail.com>
<D7EE14EC-B36D-43F2-8CEC-B63443FBBCA8@me.com>
<0E15E07E-E21C-4541-869A-3C34CBA35774@gmail.com>
To: Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:42:18 -0000
Miners could include their fee tiers in the coinbase, but this is obviously o=
pen to manipulation, with little recourse (unless they are a pool and miners=
move away because of it).=20
In any event, I think that trying out a solution that is both simple and inv=
olves the least number of parties necessary is preferable.
Have miners set their tiers, have users select the level of quality they wan=
t, ignore the block size.
Miners will adapt their tiers depending on how many transactions actually en=
d up in them. If for example they set the first tier to be $1 to be included=
in the current block and no user chooses that level of service, they've obv=
iously priced themselves out of the market. The opposite is also true; if a t=
ier is popular they can choose to increase the cost of that tier.
jp=20
> On Jul 24, 2015, at 9:28 AM, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> I suppose you can use a timelocked output that is spendable by anyone you c=
ould go somewhat in this direction=A1=ADthe thing is it still means the wall=
et must make fee estimations rather than being able to get a quick quote.
>=20
>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>=
wrote:
>>=20
>> I think implicit QoS is far simpler to implement, requires less parties a=
nd is closer to what Bitcoin started out as: a peer-to-peer digital cash sys=
tem, not a peer-to-let-me-handle-that-for-you-to-peer system.
>>=20
>> jp
>>=20
>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> By using third parties separate from individual miners that do bidding o=
n your behalf you get a mechanism that allows QoS guarantees and shifting th=
e complexity and risk from the wallet with little computational resources to=
a service with abundance of them. Using timelocked contracts it=A1=AFs poss=
ible to enforce the guarantees.
>>>=20
>>> Negotiating directly with miners via smart contracts seems difficult at b=
est.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:03 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoi=
n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Doesn't matter.
>>>>=20
>>>> It's not going to be perfect given the block time variance among other f=
actors but it's far more workable than guessing whether or not your transact=
ion is going to end up in a block at all.
>>>>=20
>>>> jp
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA256
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 23 July 2015 20:49:20 GMT-04:00, Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-de=
v <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> And it's obvious how a size cap would interfere with such a QoS schem=
e.
>>>>>> Miners wouldn't be able to deliver the below guarantees if they have t=
o
>>>>>> start excluding transactions.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> As mining is a random, poisson process, obviously giving guarantees wi=
thout a majority of hashing power isn't possible.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>=20
>>>>> iQE9BAEBCAAnIBxQZXRlciBUb2RkIDxwZXRlQHBldGVydG9kZC5vcmc+BQJVsYyK
>>>>> AAoJEMCF8hzn9Lnc47AH/28WlecQLb37CiJpcvXO9tC4zqYEodurtB9nBHTSJrug
>>>>> VIEXZW53pSTdd3vv2qpGIlHxuYP8QmDSATztwQLuN6XWEszz7TO8MXBfLxKqZyGu
>>>>> i83WqSGjMAfwqjl0xR1G7PJgt4+E+0vaAFZc98vLCgZnedbiXRVtTGjhofG1jjTc
>>>>> DFMwMZHP0eqWTwtWwqUvnA7PTFHxdqoJruY/t1KceN+JDbBCJWMxBDswU64FXcVH
>>>>> 0ecsk9nhLMyylBX/2v4HjCXyayocH8jQ+FpLSP0xxERyS+f1npFX9cxFMq24uXqn
>>>>> PcnZfLfaSJ6gMbmhbYG5wYDKN3u732j7dLzSJnMW6jk=3D
>>>>> =3DLY1+
>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>=20
|
