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authorJeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>2014-08-06 11:08:36 -0400
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2014-08-06 15:09:04 +0000
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] deterministic transaction expiration
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+From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>
+Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 11:08:36 -0400
+Message-ID: <CAJHLa0OtPA3DGQuJhp3zkK5dnBux6TFAw3qDsBdO0zaxrqBgRg@mail.gmail.com>
+To: Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com>
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+Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
+Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] deterministic transaction expiration
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+
+ ...because nLockTime is the exact opposite of expiration. A locked TX
+begins life invalid, and becomes valid (not-expired) after nLockTime passes.
+
+A new field containing expiration time would work.
+
+
+
+On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com> wrote:
+
+>
+> How is eventual expiration of a tx that started life with an nLockTime in
+> the future "breaking", any more than any other tx expiring?
+>
+>
+>
+> On 8/6/2014 6:54 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:
+>
+> We could however introduce a new field in a new tx version. We know we
+> need to rev the format at some point anyway.
+>
+>
+> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> wrote:
+>
+>> ...and existing users and uses of nLockTime suddenly become worthless,
+>> breaking payment channel refunds and other active uses of nLockTime.
+>>
+>> You cannot assume the user is around to rewrite their nLockTime, if it
+>> fails to be confirmed before some arbitrary deadline being set.
+>>
+>>
+>>
+>> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com> wrote:
+>>
+>>> ...
+>>>
+>>
+> If nLockTime is used for expiration, transaction creator can't lie to
+>>> help tx live longer without pushing initial confirmation eligibility
+>>> into the future. Very pretty. It would also enable "fill or kill"
+>>> transactions with a backdated nLockTime, which must be confirmed in a
+>>> few blocks, or start vanishing from mempools.
+>>>
+>>
+>
+
+
+--
+Jeff Garzik
+Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
+BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/
+
+--089e01536682db5fce04fff759c0
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=C2=A0...because nLockTime is the exact opposite of e=
+xpiration.=C2=A0 A locked TX begins life invalid, and becomes valid (not-ex=
+pired) after nLockTime passes.<br><br></div>A new field containing expirati=
+on time would work.<br>
+
+<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
+Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Tom Harding <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
+mailto:tomh@thinlink.com" target=3D"_blank">tomh@thinlink.com</a>&gt;</span=
+> wrote:<br>
+
+<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
+x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
+ =20
+ =20
+ =20
+ <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
+ <br>
+ How is eventual expiration of a tx that started life with an
+ nLockTime in the future &quot;breaking&quot;, any more than any other t=
+x
+ expiring?<div class=3D""><br>
+ <br>
+ <br>
+ <div>On 8/6/2014 6:54 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
+ </div>
+ </div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"">
+ <div dir=3D"ltr">We could however introduce a new field in a new tx
+ version. We know we need to rev the format at some point anyway.</d=
+iv>
+ </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
+ <br>
+ <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 2=
+:55 PM, Jeff
+ Garzik <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgarzik@bitpay.com=
+" target=3D"_blank">jgarzik@bitpay.com</a>&gt;</span>
+ wrote:<br>
+ </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
+x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"">
+ <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0...and existing users and uses of nLockT=
+ime
+ suddenly become worthless, breaking payment channel
+ refunds and other active uses of nLockTime.<br>
+ <br>
+ You cannot assume the user is around to rewrite their
+ nLockTime, if it fails to be confirmed before some
+ arbitrary deadline being set.<br>
+ <br>
+ </div>
+ </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">
+ <div>
+ <div><br>
+ <br>
+ <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">On Wed, Aug 6,=
+ 2014 at 12:01
+ AM, Tom Harding <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
+:tomh@thinlink.com" target=3D"_blank">tomh@thinlink.com</a>&gt;</span>
+ wrote:<br>
+ </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
+:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">...<br>
+ </blockquote>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </blockquote>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </blockquote><div class=3D"">
+ <br>
+ <blockquote type=3D"cite">
+ <div class=3D"gmail_extra">
+ <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
+ <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
+er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
+ <div class=3D"gmail_extra">
+ <div>
+ <div>
+ <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
+ <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
+ .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
+ If nLockTime is used for expiration, transaction
+ creator can&#39;t lie to<br>
+ help tx live longer without pushing initial
+ confirmation eligibility<br>
+ into the future. =C2=A0Very pretty. =C2=A0It would al=
+so
+ enable &quot;fill or kill&quot;<br>
+ transactions with a backdated nLockTime, which
+ must be confirmed in a<br>
+ few blocks, or start vanishing from mempools.<br>
+ </blockquote>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </blockquote>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </blockquote>
+ <br>
+ </div></div>
+
+</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Jeff Garzik<br>Bitcoin =
+core developer and open source evangelist<br>BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
+=A0<a href=3D"https://bitpay.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://bitpay.com/</a=
+>
+</div>
+
+--089e01536682db5fce04fff759c0--
+
+