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author | Andrew <onelineproof@gmail.com> | 2015-05-09 18:33:32 +0000 |
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committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2015-05-09 18:33:39 +0000 |
commit | 43c3dda72fa5c5523c55f13b2ab1995d1713ea08 (patch) | |
tree | eb6b525e6f0c7acf7a99c485728258d0b5530771 | |
parent | f3d051b5dea7547e982b15fa686cc9c02d9312fa (diff) | |
download | pi-bitcoindev-43c3dda72fa5c5523c55f13b2ab1995d1713ea08.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-43c3dda72fa5c5523c55f13b2ab1995d1713ea08.zip |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase
-rw-r--r-- | 32/2a9346f5ea67d087b05df718f2c84409394569 | 279 |
1 files changed, 279 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/32/2a9346f5ea67d087b05df718f2c84409394569 b/32/2a9346f5ea67d087b05df718f2c84409394569 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5d9047712 --- /dev/null +++ b/32/2a9346f5ea67d087b05df718f2c84409394569 @@ -0,0 +1,279 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <akaramaoun@gmail.com>) id 1Yr9ZD-0004f9-G0 + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Sat, 09 May 2015 18:33:39 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com + designates 209.85.213.178 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.213.178; envelope-from=akaramaoun@gmail.com; + helo=mail-ig0-f178.google.com; +Received: from mail-ig0-f178.google.com ([209.85.213.178]) + by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1Yr9ZB-000264-TV + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Sat, 09 May 2015 18:33:39 +0000 +Received: by igbyr2 with SMTP id yr2so44086905igb.0 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Sat, 09 May 2015 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Received: by 10.42.107.145 with SMTP id d17mr3806270icp.51.1431196412619; + Sat, 09 May 2015 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT) +Sender: akaramaoun@gmail.com +Received: by 10.64.20.229 with HTTP; Sat, 9 May 2015 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <554E035C.5090200@localhost.local> +References: <554A91BE.6060105@bluematt.me> + <CANEZrP2zAGCCBhNa4=9yw+A_Dn5o4SQXoPTE_qcJzZ1dFuF2tw@mail.gmail.com> + <CABm2gDqd6iHRUDKZWWTudcC1QkYa+rCuHjz7pMC2K1Db8wpgfA@mail.gmail.com> + <CANEZrP1CU0kB0vXeXUX1L8byaT-Zf2xg+3N+GeNthi_i6bn1qw@mail.gmail.com> + <CABsx9T2Nxvr4fqREMw3_LXftzsxrUAR1+9sVMa8_EpTnH1nN1Q@mail.gmail.com> + <554BA032.4040405@bluematt.me> + <CANEZrP3yM9wsSPNgpOsXDk-DjUy5PW2XuRTvK2AyCNbVJ5hZHw@mail.gmail.com> + <CADJgMzti7ROH90APiwg4NOAT5+Av=4i295b8VN0sbSLr4+WWRw@mail.gmail.com> + <CANEZrP39jWHLF02z-81Z4+9X1vH5+hMuS=-3ED81=Q1o9U=DKw@mail.gmail.com> + <554BBDA2.7040508@gmail.com> + <CAJHLa0NcxOHkrtW2=-JgfsXQJkCO8Ym7icBwMx_2RsaWcPBnTw@mail.gmail.com> + <554CCF56.3000604@gmail.com> + <CAL8tG=kA7V5wuRB9ob9ue4XAwGpkhh_yO_-EWDkYstV0q4PR5A@mail.gmail.com> + <CALf2ePx-m+Of-kkWnUpVboiWxsnbTdWyT45eBAziJtbsL_P41Q@mail.gmail.com> + <CADZB0_bK+YsK8sN-di2pynvjsq5VjSvnEu0-cCGhPqFunyVm7Q@mail.gmail.com> + <CAL8tG=nu30RPgvHtz+uC+-+oi-Wf5OmSsQNYbngt4gaxsHHnyQ@mail.gmail.com> + <554E035C.5090200@localhost.local> +Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 18:33:32 +0000 +X-Google-Sender-Auth: xmYEDGstsEkwRLNfu9hDXhOjZBI +Message-ID: <CAL8tG=noRz+SJzbjZ5agDrE5sBSmXn9nojpHSseZSO+Oba1mUQ@mail.gmail.com> +From: Andrew <onelineproof@gmail.com> +To: Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@riseup.net> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf301fb60dc72eac0515aa61fc +X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider + (akaramaoun[at]gmail.com) + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from + author's domain + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature +X-Headers-End: 1Yr9ZB-000264-TV +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2015 18:33:39 -0000 + +--20cf301fb60dc72eac0515aa61fc +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@riseup.net> +wrote: + +> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- +> Hash: SHA1 +> +> On 05/09/2015 02:02 PM, Andrew wrote: +> > The nice thing about 1 MB is that you can store ALL bitcoin +> > transactions relevant to your lifetime (~100 years) on one 5 TB +> > hard drive (1*6*24*365*100=5256000). Any regular person can run a +> > full node and store this 5 TB hard drive easily at their home. With +> > 10 MB blocks you need a 50 TB drive just for your bitcoin +> > transactions! This is not doable for most regular people due to +> > space and monetary constraints. Being able to review all +> > transactions relevant to your lifetime is one of the key important +> > properties of Bitcoin. How else can people audit the financial +> > transactions of companies and governments that are using the +> > Bitcoin blockchain? How else can we achieve this level of +> > transparency that is essential to keeping corrupt +> > governments/companies in check? How else can we keep track of our +> > own personal transactions without relying on others to keep track +> > of them for us? As time passes, storage technology may increase, +> > but so may human life expectancy. So yes, in this sense, 1 MB just +> > may be the magic number. +> +> How many individuals and companies do you propose will ever use +> Bitcoin (order of magnitude estimates are fine) +> +> Whatever number you select above, please describe approximately how +> many lifetime Bitcoin transactions each individual and company will be +> capable of performing with a 1 MB block size limit. +> + +I would expect at least 10 billion people (directly or indirectly) to be +using it at once for at least 100 years. But I think it's pointless to +guess how many will use it, but rather make the system ready for 10 billion +people. The point is that for small transactions, they will be done +off-chain. The actual Bitcoin blockchain will only show very large +transactions (such as a military purchasing a new space shuttle) or +aggregate transactions (i.e. a transaction consisting of multiple smaller +transactions done off-chain). There can also be multiple layers of chains +creating a tree-like structure. Each chain above will validate the +aggregate transactions of the chain below. You can think of the Bitcoin +blockchain as the "hypervisor" that manages all the other chains. While +your coffee purchase 4 days ago may not be directly visible within the +Bitcoin blockchain (the main chain), you can trace it down the sequence of +chains until you find it. Same with that fancy dinner your government MP +paid for using public funds. You don't have to store a copy of all +transactions that occurred for each chain in existence, but rather just the +transactions for the chains that you use or are relevant to you. + +As you see, this kind of system is totally transparent to all users and +totally flexible (you can choose your sub chains). The flexibility also +allows you to have arbitrarily fast transactions (choose a chain or +lightning channel attached to that chain that supports it), and you can +enjoy a wide variety of features from other chains, like using one chain +that is known to have good anonymity properties. + + +> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +> +> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVTgNcAAoJECpf2nDq2eYjM8AP/2kwSF+HMPR1KdaZsATL4rog +> xSS97Q5iEX8StA61jUqHQmpXL5pG6z5DeeKT/liwcMnYnVqOEOLvoVctr3gXfgRz +> 9GJeTOlmN5l9xBeX/nWa0A2ql0kWZpYolBS1FwYadWReAD8R0X9UeBd9YXLZNy33 +> Ow9JjwRjKHhsuyrlMP8pRDKlGPoa/U+2aW4FwiysMLa0Gu6dbFjTrp3bHw4Fccpi +> X0E/aDN68U4FV+lZ4NzkMsBK9VARzmC8KI0DQ540pqfkcnyoYf0VERl/gslPWhfq +> t6Rqa7vHHMqFe82lgCd3ji8Qhsz8oBrDS4u4jqwATvgihgImOB6K85JoKmf3y2JS +> jByjMGd4Ep0F80Z2MRhi6HuEoRU69uY2u6l9bZxMjzvLX8sG6QTNk3uLMS3ARXcY +> JBjZ/g13DXgcRj01fq05CHbCTJYZgTA9pRZTY+ZKH4r0mu86b9ua7hjvyKHS6q54 +> uaFmRkNcnKlpCY+fvH/JUdvvmwrA0ETUdHhRyk8vzWIMi+aH4//GwrCmBNRrugzv +> 9JtQ1BC+tQqtSX2VkFEhAVISitgkBqurVVlGk18FvVKPFO8cnFS/6NWoPE0WLLzW +> 2pTuhEPjdz9UAHD3RW601rb4C0LbuwVlGO4tYBjyqCmk/vBlES2XIjQKctXZLBEy +> eLgn3gMwEXUTU6UdGyvb +> =RPhK +> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- +> +> +> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud +> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications +> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights +> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. +> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y +> _______________________________________________ +> Bitcoin-development mailing list +> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development +> +> + + +-- +PGP: B6AC 822C 451D 6304 6A28 49E9 7DB7 011C D53B 5647 + +--20cf301fb60dc72eac0515aa61fc +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= +te">On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Justus Ranvier <span dir=3D"ltr"><<= +a href=3D"mailto:justusranvier@riseup.net" target=3D"_blank">justusranvier@= +riseup.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= +=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span cl= +ass=3D"">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br> +Hash: SHA1<br> +<br> +</span><span class=3D"">On 05/09/2015 02:02 PM, Andrew wrote:<br> +> The nice thing about 1 MB is that you can store ALL bitcoin<br> +> transactions relevant to your lifetime (~100 years) on one 5 TB<br> +> hard drive (1*6*24*365*100=3D5256000). Any regular person can run a<br= +> +> full node and store this 5 TB hard drive easily at their home. With<br= +> +> 10 MB blocks you need a 50 TB drive just for your bitcoin<br> +> transactions! This is not doable for most regular people due to<br> +> space and monetary constraints. Being able to review all<br> +> transactions relevant to your lifetime is one of the key important<br> +> properties of Bitcoin. How else can people audit the financial<br> +> transactions of companies and governments that are using the<br> +> Bitcoin blockchain? How else can we achieve this level of<br> +> transparency that is essential to keeping corrupt<br> +> governments/companies in check? How else can we keep track of our<br> +> own personal transactions without relying on others to keep track<br> +> of them for us? As time passes, storage technology may increase,<br> +> but so may human life expectancy. So yes, in this sense, 1 MB just<br> +> may be the magic number.<br> +<br> +</span>How many individuals and companies do you propose will ever use<br> +Bitcoin (order of magnitude estimates are fine)<br> +<br> +Whatever number you select above, please describe approximately how<br> +many lifetime Bitcoin transactions each individual and company will be<br> +capable of performing with a 1 MB block size limit.<br></blockquote><div><b= +r></div><div>I would expect at least 10 billion people (directly or indirec= +tly) to be using it at once for at least 100 years. But I think it's po= +intless to guess how many will use it, but rather make the system ready for= + 10 billion people. The point is that for small transactions, they will be = +done off-chain. The actual Bitcoin blockchain will only show very large tra= +nsactions (such as a military purchasing a new space shuttle) or aggregate = +transactions (i.e. a transaction consisting of multiple smaller transaction= +s done off-chain). There can also be multiple layers of chains creating a t= +ree-like structure. Each chain above will validate the aggregate transactio= +ns of the chain below. You can think of the Bitcoin blockchain as the "= +;hypervisor" that manages all the other chains. While your coffee purc= +hase 4 days ago may not be directly visible within the Bitcoin blockchain (= +the main chain), you can trace it down the sequence of chains until you fin= +d it. Same with that fancy dinner your government MP paid for using public = +funds. You don't have to store a copy of all transactions that occurred= + for each chain in existence, but rather just the transactions for the chai= +ns that you use or are relevant to you.<br><br></div><div>As you see, this = +kind of system is totally transparent to all users and totally flexible (yo= +u can choose your sub chains). The flexibility also allows you to have arbi= +trarily fast transactions (choose a chain or lightning channel attached to = +that chain that supports it), and you can enjoy a wide variety of features = +from other chains, like using one chain that is known to have good anonymit= +y properties.<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= +n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> +<br> +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br> +<br> +iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVTgNcAAoJECpf2nDq2eYjM8AP/2kwSF+HMPR1KdaZsATL4rog<br> +xSS97Q5iEX8StA61jUqHQmpXL5pG6z5DeeKT/liwcMnYnVqOEOLvoVctr3gXfgRz<br> +9GJeTOlmN5l9xBeX/nWa0A2ql0kWZpYolBS1FwYadWReAD8R0X9UeBd9YXLZNy33<br> +Ow9JjwRjKHhsuyrlMP8pRDKlGPoa/U+2aW4FwiysMLa0Gu6dbFjTrp3bHw4Fccpi<br> +X0E/aDN68U4FV+lZ4NzkMsBK9VARzmC8KI0DQ540pqfkcnyoYf0VERl/gslPWhfq<br> +t6Rqa7vHHMqFe82lgCd3ji8Qhsz8oBrDS4u4jqwATvgihgImOB6K85JoKmf3y2JS<br> +jByjMGd4Ep0F80Z2MRhi6HuEoRU69uY2u6l9bZxMjzvLX8sG6QTNk3uLMS3ARXcY<br> +JBjZ/g13DXgcRj01fq05CHbCTJYZgTA9pRZTY+ZKH4r0mu86b9ua7hjvyKHS6q54<br> +uaFmRkNcnKlpCY+fvH/JUdvvmwrA0ETUdHhRyk8vzWIMi+aH4//GwrCmBNRrugzv<br> +9JtQ1BC+tQqtSX2VkFEhAVISitgkBqurVVlGk18FvVKPFO8cnFS/6NWoPE0WLLzW<br> +2pTuhEPjdz9UAHD3RW601rb4C0LbuwVlGO4tYBjyqCmk/vBlES2XIjQKctXZLBEy<br> +eLgn3gMwEXUTU6UdGyvb<br> +=3DRPhK<br> +-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br> +<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------= +-------<br> +One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud<br= +> +Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications<br> +Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights<br= +> +Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.<br> +<a href=3D"http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y" target= +=3D"_blank">http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y</a><br>= +_______________________________________________<br> +Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo= +pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development= +" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= +velopment</a><br> +<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail= +_signature">PGP: B6AC 822C 451D 6304 6A28 =C2=A049E9 7DB7 011C D53B 5647</d= +iv> +</div></div> + +--20cf301fb60dc72eac0515aa61fc-- + + |