From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Fri Nov 01 2002 - 19:43:35 MST
Charles writes
> So *is* socialism a special kind of capitalism? If so, then we seem to have
> made a lot of progress. If not, then how do I recognize it when I see it?
In other words, what do most people mean by the term "socialism"?
Here is what dictionary.com says:
so·cial·ism Pronunciation Key (ssh-lzm)
noun.
Any of various theories or systems of social organization
in which the means of producing and distributing goods is
owned collectively or by a centralized government that
often plans and controls the economy.
The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between
capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of
the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has
not yet been successfully achieved.
So I predict that since so few now favor government
involvement, the term in the future shall come to
mean merely "owned collectively".
So co-ops are socialist in that sense. What exactly distinguishes
them from corporations in which the employees own stock?
Lee
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
> [mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org]On Behalf Of Charles Hixson
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 4:45 PM
> To: extropians@extropy.org
> Subject: Re: Socialism, again
>
>
> On Thursday 31 October 2002 13:54, Rafal Smigrodzki wrote:
> > Charles Hixson wrote:
> > > Ah... Socialism. Which, if any, of these schemes is socialist? I
> > > have an idea of what fair means. It means that all parties to an
> > > agreement believe that they are better off agreeing than not
> > > agreeing, and that nobody is taking advantage of a dominant position
> > > to impose onerous constraints on others. But I still don't know what
> > > socialism means... Though we seem to be getting a lot closer, once
> > > governments were dropped from the loop.
> >
> > ### Sounds like the description of the ideal free market (before the
> > emergence of monopolies). Isn't socialism just a slightly misguided type of
> > libertarianism?
> >
> > Rafal
> I don't know. Which is my point.
>
> So far I have one example which many people agree is Socialist, i.e., a
> worker's cooperative. However, many people also say it is Capitalist.
> Including some of those who say it is Socialist. And some appear to be
> denying that it is Socialist (though I haven't noticed anyone denying that it
> is Capitalist, or at least capitalist).
>
> So *is* socialism a special kind of capitalism? If so, then we seem to have
> made a lot of progress. If not, then how do I recognize it when I see it?
>
> (N.B.: I was earlier defining what I thought was "fair". Not what was
> socialist. I'm still trying to find some definitive agreement on that. It
> appearantly won't be consensus, but I'm not that strict. General agreement
> suffices for me [though consensus is nice, if you can get it].)
>
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