summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/fe/fd6285e355484aa32ffb7e84057dd815dd4b4d
blob: 286a524fe918c30cb78a743f5e18a115a7925954 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
Return-Path: <keatonatron@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A16C000B
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:13:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5251605FB
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:13:40 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.602
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
 DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,
 HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new);
 dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id 7FLmx2eRGBlq
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:13:39 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from mail-lj1-x233.google.com (mail-lj1-x233.google.com
 [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::233])
 by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3805460624
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:13:39 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-lj1-x233.google.com with SMTP id s22so24463899ljg.5
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
 h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to;
 bh=I8JkeaFBb8FiPta0V4BJd7XTF1GLDxFa+PSpZ39GNYc=;
 b=dVh12xMIhkDBukz0uANgQ8sDny0WCgQlhVmCwiIFnPtsVabHaqEa6fP21mAJgJa2q0
 TzuaUz6m2yeaVg5f2K1LHQL8i0iANfxmIa2GXfZJOR+e7iJdwGYOyuKNke8GVAvO6On3
 jb6ijKL76F4nei9LJJXS6mdtte10c11YoqCrHH7b60SYxD1qKqHDr0oI5Uw8ZC66Xayu
 tNRloDHNl4+aSJ0FL0XPi78j0APq3iYDfDM13uvwlqYpG0io+ZMH2IBJdMgegyRKjOVx
 inPgfCfbJ9grUJYCmcBXinVXmF7ggo83/yHxr/uyylmch9Ke7KrO14loYdW/DTN1Mx7E
 YHNw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date
 :message-id:subject:to;
 bh=I8JkeaFBb8FiPta0V4BJd7XTF1GLDxFa+PSpZ39GNYc=;
 b=tt/f3BTIl3HY+Ae9mSPEj8Tb5seASDKQ09dO1XdQBFfxP4M3KkyMZ1pbsvWjVtzZte
 vI7e/1LisxarzFQh7E6jaNyckUabnVYBWl3vfpVPLonoJ6FKqPwZVlSViXMk7Rk4aPH3
 jsqXxawmmUufpHIt4tQCLiJ+OYtjhy8YaoIzXOtUQWpvxYFKr9FgNPC1Q5uVo3d/wbUf
 1PlrvVAQQ4Qs0j327+9vypHvrr3DJcRC9z/NaRxsttPZRfIQS1WfhLaKCU30syWeVe/V
 SvY5fSAXb677ogYtl7LYxTCm89/3NTf4tF7LxW2xf4Wdc4iR4kbzWbv08PFlLdJpEMg3
 S/Jw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5304O4ILezvIGnmgYR4GweRdPLHEO7gsGAM5eBcaRMGXJ28i+yPc
 oeOQ0EGqhaO7MjOSZA20f2zYtDkVVEso9pFuTts=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz6BgjLAn+++HTHEi/7sF5/U+lDtCch6787dA3NmJWlNKuP9CqFx3C/LrTHjjzXomGJxPvIUpK8bYw88cXb0XM=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9a87:: with SMTP id p7mr17601175lji.477.1623755617050; 
 Tue, 15 Jun 2021 04:13:37 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <6do5xN2g5LPnFeM55iJ-4C4MyXOu_KeXxy68Xt4dJQMhi3LJ8ZrLICmEUlh8JGfDmsDG12m1JDAh0e0huwK_MlyKpdfn22ru3zsm7lYLfBo=@protonmail.com>
 <CAJowKg+QM94g+JcC-E-NGD4J9-nXHWt5kBw14bXTAWaqZz=bYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALeFGL02d9NVp+yobrtc2g6k2nBjBj0Qb==3Ukkbi8C_zb5qMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD5xwhi1G3Jj3FAAWQP3BXTK34ugDQY32hq-cQnt8Ny8JP4eGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJowKgJ1x5YKWS1S-sgdU3Tn+hPT64iiUCwG8qh-JS0xqS7ieA@mail.gmail.com>
 <30li5MRxkBhzLxLmzRnHkCdn8n3Feqegi-FLZ5VDyIX2uRJfq4kVtrsLxw6dUtsM1atYV25IfIfDaQp4s2Dn2vc8LvYkhbAsn0v_Fwjerpw=@protonmail.com>
 <CAJ4-pEBYJNuNMUCt5J5DbKU4RC9JXcO7gZdKh2Vq6PHCmddaeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <hASF-iYeGlsq3EhNWY0EWhk5S8R1Wwn534cWsrwLInd8K7f7bUDCAP4GgTj8_ZNsKtgv8y09GJovcS6KXhYRHODC5N_88fvCAF1Z-r2TUFg=@protonmail.com>
 <CAJ4-pECb9QSUDPax8SU+-KGwPgVju=YKax9eb-iRwAmZGcMcPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJowKgJ3DOrtO+_XzoEnqQUQdge=zCopg2mvuy5F=RSeaVPJYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKy8i-17Snk7ZeTL_U8ULDm3S5fYRXf412p1NpS_6CTT4Fhm0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKy8i-0efmC_AmAK6oLy1FooXd6WeSeOvRUOJ8Lb6BJoqduDTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGpPWDaiGdgrECZzvM67O6t-kVieL4uR4ydEkHr+gwUB7Ahykg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5Bsr2WaOhSObNX-=61md6tF49auaH7wUB08qKv5baiFutxSw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAH5Bsr2WaOhSObNX-=61md6tF49auaH7wUB08qKv5baiFutxSw@mail.gmail.com>
From: James MacWhyte <macwhyte@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 13:13:10 +0200
Message-ID: <CAH+Axy7mc9pRfnQwmPx5BE8z9R3gGA2FtJkBEcbprKSgW0M6zg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Lloyd Fournier <lloyd.fourn@gmail.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c1a33305c4cc1006"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Opinion on proof of stake in future
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:13:40 -0000

--000000000000c1a33305c4cc1006
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

@Lloyd wrote:

Of course in reality no one wants to keep their coin holding keys online so
> in Alogorand you can authorize a set of "participation keys"[1] that will
> be used to create blocks on your coin holding key's behalf.
> Hopefully you've spotted the problem.
> You can send your participation keys to any malicious party with a nice
> website (see random example [2]) offering you a good return.
> Damn it's still Proof-of-SquareSpace!
>

I believe we are talking about a comparison to PoW, correct? If you want to
mine PoW, you need to buy expensive hardware and configure it to work, and
wait a long time to get any return by solo mining. Or you can join a mining
pool, which might use your hashing power for nefarious purposes. Or you
might skip the hardware all together and fall for some "cloud mining"
scheme with a pretty website and a high rate of advertised return. So as
you can see, Proof-of-SquareSpace exists in PoW as well!

The PoS equivalent of buying mining hardware is setting up your own
validator and not outsourcing that to anyone else. So both PoW and PoS have
the professional/expert way of participating, and the fraud-prone, amateur
way of participating. The only difference is, with PoS the
professional/expert way is accessible to anyone with a raspberry Pi and a
web connection, which is a much lower barrier to entry than PoW.

--000000000000c1a33305c4cc1006
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div>@Lloyd wrote:</div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Of course in reality no one wants to keep their coin holding keys =
online so in Alogorand you can authorize a set of &quot;participation keys&=
quot;[1] that will be used to create blocks on your coin holding key&#39;s =
behalf.<br>Hopefully you&#39;ve spotted the problem.<br>You can send your p=
articipation keys to any malicious party with a nice website (see random ex=
ample [2]) offering you a good return.<br>Damn it&#39;s still Proof-of-Squa=
reSpace!<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I believe we are talking=
 about a comparison to PoW, correct? If you want to mine PoW, you need to b=
uy expensive hardware and configure it to work, and wait a long time to get=
 any return by solo mining. Or you can join a mining pool, which might use =
your hashing power for nefarious purposes. Or you might skip the hardware a=
ll together and fall for some &quot;cloud mining&quot; scheme with a pretty=
 website and a high rate of advertised return. So as you can see, Proof-of-=
SquareSpace exists in PoW as well!</div><div><br></div><div>The PoS equival=
ent of buying mining hardware is setting up your own validator and not outs=
ourcing that to anyone else. So both PoW and PoS have the professional/expe=
rt way of participating, and the fraud-prone, amateur way of participating.=
 The only difference is, with PoS the professional/expert way is accessible=
 to anyone with a raspberry Pi and a web connection, which is a much lower =
barrier to entry than PoW.</div></div></div>

--000000000000c1a33305c4cc1006--