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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach.de>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP70/71 issue, RFD
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Message encoding and length (or terminator or checksum or error correction o=
r...) should be part of the transport protocol, in my humble opinion.
--
Gavin Andresen
> On Jan 26, 2014, at 6:01 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
>=20
> To be more accurate, the embedded messages already have length prefixes :-=
)
>=20
>=20
>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach.=
de> wrote:
>> Just keep in mind that if it turns out we need to retrofit messages with
>> length prefixes I fear we will have to restart with new mime-types. The
>> nature of prefixes being always at the start means this rules out simply
>> incrementing a protocol version number.
>>=20
>> Correcting myself:
>>=20
>> > it might be a good idea to apply this to all messages if any.
>>=20
>> Of course I only mean the "root" messages, namely PaymentRequest,
>> Payment, and PaymentACK. The embedded messages don't need length prefixes=
.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 01/26/2014 11:00 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
>> > I think for "binding" the payment protocol to those transports we shoul=
d
>> > indeed use protobuf varint length prefixes. But it's unnecessary for al=
l
>> > cases. Unless Gavin feels it'd be better to be consistent everywhere an=
d
>> > is willing to change the spec and code - as far as I know though we're
>> > trying to ship 0.9rc1 soonish .....
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Andreas Schildbach
>> > <andreas@schildbach.de <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bluetooth, Wifi Direct, HTTP request/responses via broken proxies, s=
moke
>> > signals... basically anything that is a stream rather than a file.
>> >
>> > Right, NFC NDEF and QR codes are not affected, so we can skip the
>> > delimiter for these mediums.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 01/26/2014 10:24 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
>> > > Which medium is this an issue for? As you note, for files and HTT=
P
>> > > responses it's not a problem in practice. i'd guess nor for NFC
>> > tags nor
>> > > QR codes.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Andreas Schildbach
>> > > <andreas@schildbach.de <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de>
>> > <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de>>> wrot=
e:
>> > >
>> > > I'm experimenting with BIP70/71 (payment protocol) usage in
>> > face to face
>> > > payments (more on that soon).
>> > >
>> > > I've excountered an issue with the protobuf format. Protobufs=
>> > are not
>> > > self-delimiting. That means if you're reading from an undelim=
ited
>> > > stream, you will read endlessly because you don't know how
>> > much to read.
>> > >
>> > > The current BIP70 implementations probably work because
>> > they're reading
>> > > either from a file or from an HTTP resource which sets the
>> > > Content-Length header. Trouble is the Content-Length header i=
s
>> > optional,
>> > > and also there are many kinds of streams that don't have this=
>> > built-in
>> > > delimiting mechanism.
>> > >
>> > > The Java protobuf API solves this by offering delimited I/O, l=
ike
>> > >
>> > > payment.writeDelimitedTo(os);
>> > >
>> > > This writes the size of the message as a varint before writin=
g
>> > the data.
>> > > I don't know about protobuf implementations for other
>> > languages but I'd
>> > > expect them to offer something compatible.
>> > >
>> > > However, this leading varint is an incompatible change and
>> > would need to
>> > > be added to the spec.
>> > >
>> > > I specifically encountered this with PaymentMessage and
>> > PaymentACK, but
>> > > it might be a good idea to apply this to all messages if any.=
>> > Open for
>> > > discussion.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------
>> > > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>> > > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>> > > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In
>> > Between.
>> > > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>> > >
>> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/414=
0/ostg.clktrk
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> > > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>>
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-developm=
ent
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------
>> > > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>> > > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>> > > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Betw=
een.
>> > > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>> > >
>> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/414=
0/ostg.clktrk
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------
>> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>> > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Betwee=
n.
>> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/414=
0/ostg.clktrk
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>> > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
>> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/os=
tg.clktrk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>> >
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg=
.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg.=
clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
--Apple-Mail-45212873-56A4-403A-93A5-2FE59B616A8C
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Message encoding and length (or termin=
ator or checksum or error correction or...) should be part of the transport p=
rotocol, in my humble opinion.<br><br>--<div>Gavin Andresen</div><div><br></=
div></div><div><br>On Jan 26, 2014, at 6:01 PM, Mike Hearn <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mike@plan99.net">mike@plan99.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">To be more accurate, the embedded mess=
ages already have length prefixes :-)</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Andreas Schil=
dbach <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de" target=3D=
"_blank">andreas@schildbach.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Just keep in mind that if it turns out we need=
to retrofit messages with<br>
length prefixes I fear we will have to restart with new mime-types. The<br>
nature of prefixes being always at the start means this rules out simply<br>=
incrementing a protocol version number.<br>
<br>
Correcting myself:<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
> it might be a good idea to apply this to all messages if any.<br>
<br>
</div>Of course I only mean the "root" messages, namely PaymentRequest,<br>
Payment, and PaymentACK. The embedded messages don't need length prefixes.<b=
r>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
On 01/26/2014 11:00 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
> I think for "binding" the payment protocol to those transports we shoul=
d<br>
> indeed use protobuf varint length prefixes. But it's unnecessary for al=
l<br>
> cases. Unless Gavin feels it'd be better to be consistent everywhere an=
d<br>
> is willing to change the spec and code - as far as I know though we're<=
br>
> trying to ship 0.9rc1 soonish .....<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Andreas Schildbach<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">> <<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">an=
dreas@schildbach.de</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">=
andreas@schildbach.de</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Bluetooth, Wifi Direct, HTTP request/responses via broken=
proxies, smoke<br>
> signals... basically anything that is a stream rather tha=
n a file.<br>
><br>
> Right, NFC NDEF and QR codes are not affected, so we can s=
kip the<br>
> delimiter for these mediums.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 01/26/2014 10:24 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
> > Which medium is this an issue for? As you note, for f=
iles and HTTP<br>
> > responses it's not a problem in practice. i'd guess n=
or for NFC<br>
> tags nor<br>
> > QR codes.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Andreas Schildbach=
<br>
> > <<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">andreas=
@schildbach.de</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">andre=
as@schildbach.de</a>><br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:andreas@schildbach.de">andreas@schildbach.de</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:andreas@schildbach.de">andreas@schildbach.de</a>>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > I'm experimenting with BIP70/71 (payme=
nt protocol) usage in<br>
> face to face<br>
> > payments (more on that soon).<br>
> ><br>
> > I've excountered an issue with the pro=
tobuf format. Protobufs<br>
> are not<br>
> > self-delimiting. That means if you're r=
eading from an undelimited<br>
> > stream, you will read endlessly becaus=
e you don't know how<br>
> much to read.<br>
> ><br>
> > The current BIP70 implementations prob=
ably work because<br>
> they're reading<br>
> > either from a file or from an HTTP res=
ource which sets the<br>
> > Content-Length header. Trouble is the C=
ontent-Length header is<br>
> optional,<br>
> > and also there are many kinds of strea=
ms that don't have this<br>
> built-in<br>
> > delimiting mechanism.<br>
> ><br>
> > The Java protobuf API solves this by o=
ffering delimited I/O, like<br>
> ><br>
> > payment.writeDelimitedTo(os);<br>
> ><br>
> > This writes the size of the message as=
a varint before writing<br>
> the data.<br>
> > I don't know about protobuf implementa=
tions for other<br>
> languages but I'd<br>
> > expect them to offer something compati=
ble.<br>
> ><br>
> > However, this leading varint is an inc=
ompatible change and<br>
> would need to<br>
> > be added to the spec.<br>
> ><br>
> > I specifically encountered this with P=
aymentMessage and<br>
> PaymentACK, but<br>
> > it might be a good idea to apply this t=
o all messages if any.<br>
> Open for<br>
> > discussion.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ---------------------------------------------------------=
---------------------<br>
> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enter=
prise Cloud Services.<br>
> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing=
CenturyLink Cloud For<br>
> > Critical Workloads, Development Enviro=
nments & Everything In<br>
> Between.<br>
> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Toda=
y.<br>
> ><br>
> <a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D=
119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doub=
leclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
> > ______________________________________=
_________<br>
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> > <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@=
lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.so=
urceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>><br>
</div></div>> > <mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sour=
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f=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@l=
ists.sourceforge.net</a>>><br>
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et/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourc=
eforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ---------------------------------------------------------=
---------------------<br>
> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Se=
rvices.<br>
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loud For<br>
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nfo/bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lis=
ts/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
> ---------------------------------------------------------=
---------------------<br>
> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Service=
s.<br>
> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud =
For<br>
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hing In Between.<br>
> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.<br>
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urceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>><br>
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> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.<br>
> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For<br>
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n.<br>
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> <a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&am=
p;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/=
gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
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ment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin=
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Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For<br>
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>
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target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-deve=
lopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>--------------------=
----------------------------------------------------------</span><br><span>C=
enturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.</span><br><span>L=
earn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For</span><br><span>=
Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.</s=
pan><br><span>Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.</span><br><span><a hr=
ef=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/41=
40/ostg.clktrk">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&am=
p;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a></span></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><sp=
an>Bitcoin-development mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoi=
n-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.n=
et</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listin=
fo/bitcoin-development">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin=
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