1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
|
Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <pete@petertodd.org>) id 1Y2iV6-0003ZD-7D
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:32:56 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org
designates 62.13.148.107 as permitted sender)
client-ip=62.13.148.107; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org;
helo=outmail148107.authsmtp.com;
Received: from outmail148107.authsmtp.com ([62.13.148.107])
by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
id 1Y2iV3-0007JD-MV for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:32:56 +0000
Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235])
by punt18.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id sBLFWjn5084653;
Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:32:45 GMT
Received: from savin.petertodd.org (75-119-251-161.dsl.teksavvy.com
[75.119.251.161]) (authenticated bits=128)
by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id sBLFWfrr003249
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:32:44 GMT
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 10:32:41 -0500
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org>
Message-ID: <20141221153241.GC3927@savin.petertodd.org>
References: <20141212090551.GA8259@muck>
<20141220144800.GA26284@savin.petertodd.org>
<CAOG=w-vrHPY1aCNndmoW9QyCh9XnWyv8uZn2PyjZ6rNg2MoSSw@mail.gmail.com>
<20141221055220.GB8255@savin.petertodd.org>
<CAOG=w-tZke--6OsqNjJhE9SOdCwdZYZM8iz1VBTFziegt9UZWw@mail.gmail.com>
<20141221070154.GD8255@savin.petertodd.org>
<CAOG=w-s1_VXJAKxBpMOK=B50qnHjxSe4J=vwwSfFPRz0_Cb9rA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ncSAzJYg3Aa9+CRW"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAOG=w-s1_VXJAKxBpMOK=B50qnHjxSe4J=vwwSfFPRz0_Cb9rA@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Server-Quench: 9bfc302a-8926-11e4-b396-002590a15da7
X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at:
http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse
X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR
aAdMdAMUHFAXAgsB AmIbWlFeU197XWc7 bA9PbARUfEhLXhtr
VklWR1pVCwQmQm59 cHlIEFtydwZEfHc+ ZEZiWHgVVRYsJkV9
QB9JHWQEY3phaTUb TRJbfgVJcANIexZF O1F6ACIKLwdSbGoL
NQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpY RgYVKF8UXXNDIj4x DwoPGTwzHEoDXCUy
N1QsJ0IDEUsXUA0K K1wmVxcfPVoqFwda HkpEHC5eIREIQSZj
JAVGXAskHSVZSDYU JQchKRtFGVQI
X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706
X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255)
X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 75.119.251.161/587
X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own
anti-virus system.
X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
X-Headers-End: 1Y2iV3-0007JD-MV
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between
Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:32:56 -0000
--ncSAzJYg3Aa9+CRW
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 03:11:32PM +0800, Mark Friedenbach wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
>=20
> > Right, so Freimarkets is deliberately insecure.
> >
>=20
> Please define your terms, particularly what your security requirements are
> here. In the architecture we created users remain in control of their fun=
ds
> at all times, and miners have incentives to mine the host chain. So I don=
't
> know what insecurity you are possibly talking about, and seem unwilling to
> elaborate.
Sybil attacks leading to front-running.
You may not be aware of this, but not being able to get the best price
due to a sybil attack *is* considered to be a security issue by the
users of these systems.
> I have read your posting and engaged with you in that very thread, where I
> point out that global ordering of bids & asks is a superfluous requiremen=
t.
It's superfluous until you have real businesses actually using these
systems.
> As to front-running, there is a distinct difference between centralized
> systems where front-running is essentially theft, and a distributed block
> chain system with actual costs paid by fees captured from the spread.
Among other things, ever noticed how this incentivises people to sybil
attack the entire system? Not good.
--=20
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
000000000000000012f5511833a1304a72a754df8afef26f5712438bcc40826b
--ncSAzJYg3Aa9+CRW
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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==
=Lq64
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--ncSAzJYg3Aa9+CRW--
|
