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From: Alex Schoof <alex.schoof@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2021 09:44:17 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+2b5C3NiY7FcVbBYPKoMy4h6NbXTBY6jkJXhVU46ZorGvSBhQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
 Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Boost Bitcoin circulation,
 Million Transactions Per Second with stronger privacy
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A few questions/comments:

Why is there a 10 sat fee on each tx? Where does that fee go?

I don=E2=80=99t think this design sufficiently protects against double spen=
ds by
the =E2=80=9Cissuer=E2=80=9D (the person who actually has the UTXO). Your g=
uarantee tx
mechanism only really covers the case where someone tries to double spend
part of a UTXO balance (in other words, if the penalty lost is less than
the value gained by doing a double spend, its worth it to double spend, and
in a world where you=E2=80=99re passing around digital IOUs, it=E2=80=99s e=
asy to make it
worth it). Later in the post, you mention that there will be a p2p network
to gossip fund transfers and that will prevent an issuer from double
spending. The problem there is that network latency is non-zero, large
network partitions are both real and common, and nodes can come and go
anytime (hardware failure, power failure, network partition healing, just
because they feel like it, etc). Different nodes on the network might hear
about different, conflicting transactions. Nodes will need a way to all
come to consensus on what the right set of =E2=80=9Csent notes=E2=80=9D is.=
 I think you
will end up reinventing a lot of the problems solved by bitcoin.

Why did you pick email as the RPC mechanism to transfer these notes? Email
is going to add variable amounts of latency and things like spam filters
will cause issues.

Alex

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 4:23 AM Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> for very small transactions, this seems to make a hell of a lot of sense.
>
> it's like lightning, but with no limits, no routing protocols...
> everything is guaranteed by relative fees and the cost-of-theft.
>
> pretty cool.
>
> On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:14 PM raymo via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I have a proposal for improve Bitcoin TPS and privacy, here is the post=
.
> >
> https://raymo-49157.medium.com/time-to-boost-bitcoin-circulation-million-=
transactions-per-second-and-privacy-1eef8568d180
> > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5344020.0
> > Can you please read it and share your idea about it.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Raymo
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
--=20


Alex Schoof

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<div dir=3D"auto">A few questions/comments:</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">Why is there a 10 sat fee on each tx? Where does that f=
ee go?=C2=A0<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I don=
=E2=80=99t think this design sufficiently protects against double spends by=
 the =E2=80=9Cissuer=E2=80=9D (the person who actually has the UTXO). Your =
guarantee tx mechanism only really covers the case where someone tries to d=
ouble spend part of a UTXO balance (in other words, if the penalty lost is =
less than the value gained by doing a double spend, its worth it to double =
spend, and in a world where you=E2=80=99re passing around digital IOUs, it=
=E2=80=99s easy to make it worth it). Later in the post, you mention that t=
here will be a p2p network to gossip fund transfers and that will prevent a=
n issuer from double spending. The problem there is that network latency is=
 non-zero, large network partitions are both real and common, and nodes can=
 come and go anytime (hardware failure, power failure, network partition he=
aling, just because they feel like it, etc). Different nodes on the network=
 might hear about different, conflicting transactions. Nodes will need a wa=
y to all come to consensus on what the right set of =E2=80=9Csent notes=E2=
=80=9D is. I think you will end up reinventing a lot of the problems solved=
 by bitcoin.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Why d=
id you pick email as the RPC mechanism to transfer these notes? Email is go=
ing to add variable amounts of latency and things like spam filters will ca=
use issues.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Alex</=
div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 4:23 AM Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxf=
oundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">for ve=
ry small transactions, this seems to make a hell of a lot of sense.<br>
<br>
it&#39;s like lightning, but with no limits, no routing protocols...<br>
everything is guaranteed by relative fees and the cost-of-theft.<br>
<br>
pretty cool.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:14 PM raymo via bitcoin-dev<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi,<br>
&gt; I have a proposal for improve Bitcoin TPS and privacy, here is the pos=
t.<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://raymo-49157.medium.com/time-to-boost-bitcoin-circul=
ation-million-transactions-per-second-and-privacy-1eef8568d180" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://raymo-49157.medium.com/time-to-boost-bitc=
oin-circulation-million-transactions-per-second-and-privacy-1eef8568d180</a=
><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5344020.0" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D53=
44020.0</a><br>
&gt; Can you please read it and share your idea about it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Cheers<br>
&gt; Raymo<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-=
dev" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><br><br>Alex Schoof</div>

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