1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
|
Return-Path: <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F4ECF58
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 23 May 2019 19:54:49 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com (mail-wr1-f52.google.com
[209.85.221.52])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB69D6C5
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 23 May 2019 19:54:48 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id d18so7570198wrs.5
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 23 May 2019 12:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to
:references; bh=JZdOcsx/F3e/goXVhqUG0L7jTgUGZgiV027lVw84QIQ=;
b=MdseNGNN14dyMyP2S18yUsXpDAj7Z10GQRsO/O8jErhLWpgoL8HOvOm3CcWxmXisaJ
cNa671dUEGTQcSLPaN/vg73wo/sG6VWj/soa3GWiwoBzroCuyxa4FKbsDAPVzL73INCp
24ArjF/QVZVL2gEwxWxIaiy6t58PAyAlnpJc3Bywht9lMUYojuuRoTLOnPbHRckQ/HA4
iw7ryxKZhUzFidf2/150Dbd3oyPTzlcLXRCa/0oobXi2eBwVSad5HZJB3xoksSR1yfSy
eRJK4SmODce7W/U3jtEjSkeJesZSbiHqGWGInsvd/D1Pp+ZajObjD/RvNXS8AvJIhsba
4IYA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date
:in-reply-to:cc:to:references;
bh=JZdOcsx/F3e/goXVhqUG0L7jTgUGZgiV027lVw84QIQ=;
b=Kn58uLXcY6oj5JA0W8IiUWOHsxhIyS3rL+fThBbZQ3X4O4pS9se8CXr48AVfvNnBaz
eLsLI/sOhHvHDTIx5p/OItDglUgilEP4ZgEBALxv4DDQlfSw7EoAzs+MxUi4vG4ADMCU
jYZpdh5/iHXWRcuvJtcZt5l17E0wY/8RQU6qkWKw7krQXk+U5lf4ZwfSqXPlxIvEShTK
jU/nuMM0OHxddA458rU79mjMB56b3ztTZm/wTE20FeVFW/dct72hS12P+73+eNABM3Vu
j83nvYmkwL/boq8BSd37TCQoCyeJ9hNOzxE1SveSI4j+BvS41bGqn7afvwcMgpfAyy3l
Zzag==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV4Nj1zH5pyIROIrQNcttK1B/ZcmrWF9avikfczuHb+iMtY/LxE
sx95RXpCxxg4LbCzJz6+Gm8=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxgwknkgow4/3byCX0s7ay79sA30JF2ckFZUlA6rni4RvOMmUS1R4ucREIhorqrSq4R5pZewA==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:cf0c:: with SMTP id o12mr52461069wrj.182.1558641287411;
Thu, 23 May 2019 12:54:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from p200300dd67196b11c120770d4d53396f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de
(p200300DD67196B11C120770D4D53396F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de.
[2003:dd:6719:6b11:c120:770d:4d53:396f])
by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o8sm139407wrx.50.2019.05.23.12.54.46
(version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
Thu, 23 May 2019 12:54:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <FC1E77CA-929C-40E1-A80E-ADC1CBD65A6E@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed;
boundary="Apple-Mail=_6003DAEB-20B2-46A2-BBCD-F6C46C9BC731";
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 21:54:43 +0200
In-Reply-To: <09724852-6971-4E5A-AAB5-3FBAEEA1D995@gmail.com>
To: Nathan Cook <nathan.cook@gmail.com>
References: <CAD5xwhgHyR5qdd09ikvA_vgepj4o+Aqb0JA_T6FuqX56ZNe1RQ@mail.gmail.com>
<42F53D61-BAAE-464F-BB0D-4D0CDC554D9A@gmail.com>
<CAGNXQMTLjkC+i7YcVyWC0Z0ixTkwhYR2qF4R0qeMNTT4ntj9oQ@mail.gmail.com>
<C6788578-80D4-44E7-8CF7-82AD15E3F12C@gmail.com>
<CAGNXQMQG4KwAohfENYuUW=uABGshbJMYmdb_71ZtByCuj=14bQ@mail.gmail.com>
<09724852-6971-4E5A-AAB5-3FBAEEA1D995@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 23 May 2019 19:57:54 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_DIFFICULTY to enable difficulty hedges (bets)
without an oracle and 3rd party.
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 19:54:49 -0000
--Apple-Mail=_6003DAEB-20B2-46A2-BBCD-F6C46C9BC731
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Block hash can suggest much higher difficulty than what is in effect, so =
OP_CHECKBLOCKATHEIGHT would not work to decide if difficulty is above =
the level of the bet.
> On May 23, 2019, at 21:45, Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> I see. The uncompressing needs to be done either to compare. How are =
chances for that BIP?
>=20
> This BIP would be explicitly offering risk managment of miners biggest =
risk.
> Doing so without relying on external markets or oracle, self =
cointained would be an impressive and adequate feature.
>=20
> Tamas Blummer
>=20
>> On May 23, 2019, at 21:21, Nathan Cook <nathan.cook@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> It's true that it fetches the block hash; the idea is to compare the =
block hash's numeric value to the desired (uncompressed) difficulty =
directly, using a 256-bit version of OP_LESSTHAN.
>>=20
>> Nathan Cook
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 22:18, Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>> That opcode would not help as it fetches block hash and not the =
content of the header.
>>=20
>>> On May 23, 2019, at 21:05, Nathan Cook <nathan.cook@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> You can get the same effect with OP_CHECKBLOCKATHEIGHT as proposed =
by Luke Dashjr =
(https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/bip-cbah/bip-cbah.mediawiki) if =
you also re-enable/extend certain opcodes like OP_AND and OP_LESSTHAN. =
See =
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-September/013=
149.html and the ensuing thread.
>>>=20
>>> Nathan Cook
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 21:33, Tamas Blummer via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> Difficulty change has profound impact on miner=E2=80=99s production =
thereby introduce the biggest risk while considering an investment.
>>> Commodity markets offer futures and options to hedge risks on =
traditional trading venues. Some might soon list difficulty futures.
>>>=20
>>> I think we could do much better than them natively within Bitcoin.
>>>=20
>>> A better solution could be a transaction that uses nLocktime =
denominated in block height, such that it is valid after the difficulty =
adjusted block in the future.
>>> A new OP_DIFFICULTY opcode would put onto stack the value of =
difficulty for the block the transaction is included into.
>>> The output script may then decide comparing that value with a strike =
which key can spend it.
>>> The input of the transaction would be a multi-sig escrow of those =
who entered the bet.
>>> The winner would broadcast.
>>>=20
>>> Once signed by both the transaction would not carry any counterparty =
risk and would not need an oracle to settle according to the bet.
>>>=20
>>> I plan to draft a BIP for this as I think this opcode would serve =
significant economic interest of Bitcoin economy, and is compatible with =
Bitcoin=E2=80=99s aim not to introduce 3rd party to do so.
>>>=20
>>> Do you see a fault in this proposal or want to contribute?
>>>=20
>>> Tamas Blummer
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail=_6003DAEB-20B2-46A2-BBCD-F6C46C9BC731
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=signature.asc
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
name=signature.asc
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEE6YNJViYMM6Iv5f9e9nKRxRdxORwFAlzm+oMACgkQ9nKRxRdx
ORws9wf9Hl5Za/aLc7afInndiCl4ykLhHp9gG0xLz2rRIiOcwXYVy+YDmqPy6cbx
TNy5yRjgLsHkW0hHWOd0tH74Vuz+agkRdDB3HCh+O7fx/gHJ4F98dJreiQ5VGitG
PPtCM08HFfwyKjgAUnA2mU/07H0kxTENeKp95WnfHlN64Z3Z+KLL9DcA5Mlwj2jw
1045Pbq7umhADEg6k3poXEiHunz6vcbBAxlyp62YqUeBeFNUKWnsPh3Snfnf7gv6
brAD9ne1XLVS5bptZHYAZti4EvEozQsCELMr/zc2y8YtecFzEEMvuCV21d6qF85N
1XyZ0TRMnrV2DWsjJmHVDrGx7aOxxw==
=ckXh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--Apple-Mail=_6003DAEB-20B2-46A2-BBCD-F6C46C9BC731--
|
