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Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin-development Digest, Vol 35,
	Issue 61
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---1600273758-1485183827-1397705876=:21285
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=0A________________________________=0A...=0AMessage: 4=0ADate: Wed, 16 Apr =
2014 21:43:10 +0200=0AFrom: Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org>=0ASubject: Re:=
 [Bitcoin-development] Warning message when running wallet=0A=A0=A0=A0 in W=
indows XP (or drop support?)=0ATo: Wladimir <laanwj@gmail.com>=0ACc: Bitcoi=
n Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>=0AMessage-ID: <2014041619=
4310.GA11552@netbook.cypherspace.org>=0AContent-Type: text/plain; charset=
=3Diso-8859-1; format=3Dflowed=0A=0ANot to get snarky or OS elitist but as =
I understand it windows security,=0Aeven during its support period has been=
 measured in low digit number of days=0Ain the year when is NOT an outstand=
ing known remote root compromise or=0Acombination of remote user compromise=
 + priviledge escalation.=A0 Add in=0Aphishing, watering holes, malware and=
 the average windows computer is=0Aprobably compromised a dozen times over.=
=A0 Apparently for sometime it was not=0Aeasily possible to secure it insta=
ll boot - install OS, connect to network=0Ato download security updates, IP=
 range scanned and compromised faster than=0Ayou can patch it.=0A=0AAdam=0A=
...=0A________________________________________________________________=0ARi=
ght.=0A=0AThe trick was to install off line, add your own (free or commerci=
al s/w firewall) then =0Aconnect, behind a router that had no port forwardi=
ng, etc.=A0 Hell before cheap =0Arouters I ran one Win95B as I remember, us=
ing ICS to a hub that feed my LAN and in front =0Awas a dialup and a cable =
modem.=A0 Atguard was the S/W firewall, worked great and =0Anever was penet=
rated.=0A=0AAnd if one used IE for anything, or any form of Outlook one was=
 and still is a fool. =0AThere are still fools who think that their Windows=
 Vista, 7, 8 or 8.1 is safe because =0AMS updates it days, weeks or longer =
after an exploit is found/exposed/known... And=0Athey feel that they can in=
stall and run anything anyone says is OK?=A0 No firewall can protect =0Aaga=
inst shall we say digital naivety. =0A=0AAh what fools these mortals be.=A0=
 Then there are others that have never used IE, =0Anever installed/enabled =
Outlook, never enabled UPNP &/or, DCOM; never executed =0A"unknown" s/w, an=
d always had their own s/w firewall on, long before MS even =0Athought of "=
Windows Firewall".=A0 Does anyone (other than zone alarm) check for =0Adata=
 leaving one's computer "unexpectedely"?=A0 Those machines could run Win95B=
, =0AWin98SE, NT4, Win2K, XP pro long past MS's "cut off date" and barely n=
otice=0Aanything. The show stopper is usually the browser (FF) or Adobe fla=
sh or pdf =0Ademanding more OS functions, usually so that they can perform =
more functions =0Amore poorly, I'm sorry to say.=0A=0ACheck the live deskto=
p OSs connected to the internet, by version at =0AMarket share for mobile, =
browsers, operating systems and search engines | NetMarketShare =0A=0A=0A =
=0A Market share for mobile, browsers, operating systems and search engines=
 | NetMarketShare=0AMarket share for mobile, browsers, operating systems, s=
earch engines and social media. Mobile market share and desktop market shar=
e data.  =0AView on www.netmarketshare.com Preview by Yahoo  =0A=A0 last I =
checked, XP was still ~29% and all Windows versions, ~90%=0A=0AComputer saf=
ety, like driver safety, has more to do with the knowledge and skill =0Aof =
the operator/driver, than the "newness" of the car/computer.=A0 A good driv=
er/computer =0Auser, never gets into a situation that he/she can't repair/r=
everse/prevent/recover from=0Aetc.=A0 Drive/run a motorcycle/computer and y=
ou will learn defensive driving/computing =0A=0Areally fast or be roadkill =
on the highway/digital highway.=0A=0ARon
---1600273758-1485183827-1397705876=:21285
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:10pt">  <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, H=
elvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style=
=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Gr=
ande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"> <hr si=
ze=3D"1"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold=
;"></span></b></font>...<br>Message: 4<br>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 21:43:10 +=
0200<br>From: Adam Back &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:adam@cypherspace.org" href=
=3D"mailto:adam@cypherspace.org">adam@cypherspace.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: R=
e: [Bitcoin-development] Warning message when running wallet<br>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; in Windows XP (or drop support?)<br>To: Wladimir &lt;<a ymailto=3D"=
mailto:laanwj@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:laanwj@gmail.com">laanwj@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;<br>Cc:
 Bitcoin Dev &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge=
.net" href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">bitcoin-dev=
elopment@lists.sourceforge.net</a>&gt;<br>Message-ID: &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:20140416194310.GA11552@netbook.cypherspace.org" href=3D"mailto:20140416=
194310.GA11552@netbook.cypherspace.org">20140416194310.GA11552@netbook.cyph=
erspace.org</a>&gt;<br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1; form=
at=3Dflowed<br><br>Not to get snarky or OS elitist but as I understand it w=
indows security,<br>even during its support period has been measured in low=
 digit number of days<br>in the year when is NOT an outstanding known remot=
e root compromise or<br>combination of remote user compromise + priviledge =
escalation.&nbsp; Add in<br>phishing, watering holes, malware and the avera=
ge windows computer is<br>probably compromised a dozen times over.&nbsp; Ap=
parently for sometime it was not<br>easily possible to secure it install bo=
ot -
 install OS, connect to network<br>to download security updates, IP range s=
canned and compromised faster than<br>you can patch it.<br><br>Adam<br>...<=
br>________________________________________________________________<br>Righ=
t.<br><br>The trick was to install off line, add your own (free or commerci=
al s/w firewall) then <br>connect, behind a router that had no port forward=
ing, etc.&nbsp; Hell before cheap <br>routers I ran one Win95B as I remembe=
r, using ICS to a hub that feed my LAN and in front <br>was a dialup and a =
cable modem.&nbsp; Atguard was the S/W firewall, worked great and <br>never=
 was penetrated.<br><br>And if one used IE for anything, or any form of Out=
look one was and still is a fool. <br>There are still fools who think that =
their Windows Vista, 7, 8 or 8.1 is safe because <br>MS updates it days, we=
eks or longer after an exploit is found/exposed/known... And<br>they feel t=
hat they can install and run anything anyone says is OK?&nbsp; No
 firewall can protect <br>against shall we say digital naivety. <br><br>Ah =
what fools these mortals be.&nbsp; Then there are others that have never us=
ed IE, <br>never installed/enabled Outlook, never enabled UPNP &amp;/or, DC=
OM; never executed <br>"unknown" s/w, and always had their own s/w firewall=
 on, long before MS even <br>thought of "Windows Firewall".&nbsp; Does anyo=
ne (other than zone alarm) check for <br>data leaving one's computer "unexp=
ectedely"?&nbsp; Those machines could run Win95B, <br>Win98SE, NT4, Win2K, =
XP pro long past MS's "cut off date" and barely notice<br>anything. The sho=
w stopper is usually the browser (FF) or Adobe flash or pdf <br>demanding m=
ore OS functions, usually so that they can perform more functions <br>more =
poorly, I'm sorry to say.<br><br>Check the live desktop OSs connected to th=
e internet, by version at <br><a href=3D"http://www.netmarketshare.com/">Ma=
rket share for mobile, browsers, operating systems and search engines
 | NetMarketShare</a> <br><br></div><div style=3D"width:450px; font-family:=
 'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times New Roman', 'serif';" id=3D"enhancrCard_3" clas=
s=3D"link-enhancr-attachment link-enhancr-element" contenteditable=3D"false=
"><table class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width:450px; height:auto; =
position: relative; margin-top:5px; margin-bottom: 5px; display: block;" ce=
llpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr class=3D"link-enhancr-element"=
><td colspan=3D"6" class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"height: 1px; bac=
kground-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"heigh=
t: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr><tr class=3D"link-enhan=
cr-element"><td rowspan=3D"2" class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width=
: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" styl=
e=3D"width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div></td><td class=3D"link-e=
nhancr-element" colspan=3D"2" style=3D"width: 100%; vertical-align: middle;=
 font-family: 'Georgia', 'Times',
 'Times New Roman', 'serif';"><div class=3D"link-enhancr-text-part link-enh=
ancr-element" style=3D"line-height:16.5px; background-color: #ffffff;  widt=
h: 448px;"><div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"word-wrap: break-wo=
rd; padding: 7px 20px 0px 14px;"><span class=3D"link-enhancr-element icon  =
icon-shrink link-enhancr-toggle"></span><span class=3D"link-enhancr-element=
 icon icon-close link-enhancr-delete"></span><a href=3D"http://www.netmarke=
tshare.com/" class=3D"link-enhancr-card-urlWrapper link-enhancr-element" st=
yle=3D"text-decoration: none !important; color: #000000 !important;"><span =
class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-card-title" style=3D"margin: 0; =
font-weight: normal;margin-bottom: 4px; font-size: 18px; line-height: 21px;=
 max-height: 43px; color: #000000; overflow: hidden !important; display: in=
line-block;">Market share for mobile, browsers, operating systems and searc=
h engines | NetMarketShare</span></a><div style=3D"font-size: 13px; line-he=
ight: 20px;
 color: #999999; max-height: 81px; font-family: 'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times =
New Roman', 'serif';overflow: hidden;" class=3D"link-enhancr-card-descripti=
on link-enhancr-element">Market share for mobile, browsers, operating syste=
ms, search engines and social media. Mobile market share and desktop market=
 share data.</div></div></div></td><td class=3D"link-enhancr-element" rowsp=
an=3D"2" style=3D"width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class=3D"lin=
k-enhancr-element" style=3D"width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div><=
/td></tr><tr><td class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"width: 100%; verti=
cal-align: middle; font-family: 'Arial', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Helvetica', 'sa=
ns-serif';"><div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"font-size: 0pt; pa=
dding: 3px 20px 9px 14px;"><a href=3D"http://www.netmarketshare.com/" class=
=3D"link-enhancr-card-url link-enhancr-element" style=3D"color: black; text=
-decoration: none !important;cursor:pointer !important;" target=3D"_blank">=
<span
 class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-view-on" style=3D"display: inli=
ne-block; line-height: 11px; max-width: 348px; min-width: 288px; overflow: =
hidden; max-height: 13px; word-break: break-all;"><span class=3D"link-enhan=
cr-element link-enhancr-mobile-no-resize" style=3D"vertical-align:middle; f=
ont-size: 9px; line-height: 11px; color: #999999; -moz-text-size-adjust: no=
ne; -ms-text-size-adjust: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust:none; text-size-ad=
just:none;">View on <span style=3D"font-weight: bold" class=3D"link-enhancr=
-view-on-domain">www.netmarketshare.com</span></span></span></a></div></td>=
<td class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"vertical-align: middle; width: =
100px; font-family: 'Arial', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Helvetica', 'sans-serif';">=
<div class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-preview-wrapper" style=3D"p=
adding: 6px 20px 12px 0px; max-width: 100px; min-width: 80px; overflow: hid=
den; text-align: right; line-height: 11px; max-height: 13px; font-size: 0pt=
;"><span
 class=3D"link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-preview-by link-enhancr-mobile-=
no-resize" style=3D"vertical-align:middle; font-size: 9px; line-height: 11p=
x; color: #999999; -moz-text-size-adjust: none; -ms-text-size-adjust: none;=
 -webkit-text-size-adjust:none; text-size-adjust:none;">Preview by Yahoo</s=
pan></div></td></tr><tr class=3D"link-enhancr-element"><td class=3D"link-en=
hancr-element" colspan=3D"6" style=3D"height: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e=
5;"><div class=3D"link-enhancr-element" style=3D"height: 1px; background-co=
lor: #e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div>&nbsp; last I che=
cked, XP was still ~29% and all Windows versions, ~90%<br><br>Computer safe=
ty, like driver safety, has more to do with the knowledge and skill <br>of =
the operator/driver, than the "newness" of the car/computer.&nbsp; A good d=
river/computer <br>user, never gets into a situation that he/she can't repa=
ir/reverse/prevent/recover from<br>etc.&nbsp; Drive/run a motorcycle/comput=
er and
 you will learn defensive driving/computing <br></div><div style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,He=
lvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font=
-style: normal;">really fast or be roadkill on the highway/digital highway.=
</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: Helv=
eticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; backgrou=
nd-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,He=
lvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font=
-style: normal;">Ron<br></div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container">&nbsp;</div><=
/div> </div>  </div></body></html>
---1600273758-1485183827-1397705876=:21285--