1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
|
Return-Path: <bram@chia.net>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BE4C002D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sat, 21 May 2022 15:38:06 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A38B400AB
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sat, 21 May 2022 15:38:06 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org (amavisd-new);
dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=chia.net
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id Bis4N-qFrmIB
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sat, 21 May 2022 15:38:05 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com (mail-lf1-x134.google.com
[IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::134])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E983C40B3E
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sat, 21 May 2022 15:38:04 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id p22so18815810lfo.10
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sat, 21 May 2022 08:38:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=chia.net; s=google;
h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to;
bh=PYGIsOxsMZaFhqeyclrfqJtYE26aC2Jam+GyJY1v/MI=;
b=oGle8Jby5Lgne6U6lv1sYV1tcom1CQm2JjbWjHPHxCvOfctJ0j7e6yaHESxdJQxoxy
lnbFfMKTEgOBhF1IrIkfSq13FV5VbzeqI5AsB2CXA5oCrf94BgSE8moan5c5v2B00QdY
Bb71ljJKhTN6Rj9xwBvqxRyZve2Z7txDBUXopKmZTOWAJA+FG0947HOILEkeO/a9r+RK
5SjaM2d5oUQ14nXZV2gT10f3BzbuRMLMG0E49v77WK3TUrsy89+Xx52vcsVefn+EchVk
CGM7xUAkY/RYkEGRlB3N4lX6QLwIKdpWZQ5gBWCVnmkaR3iK0YSJtVQevjtJWaOvtSHb
0uEQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20210112;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date
:message-id:subject:to;
bh=PYGIsOxsMZaFhqeyclrfqJtYE26aC2Jam+GyJY1v/MI=;
b=Kdv7ZH27/KOoE5hr9AEg5qOHPaEEQDP9yl2RbQIr4ErRM9SWTTJFusvzWGIwGE0IN7
5mp+Htw/hzghR+g3jdICjSa7mEpi+e4LlU3GAQ6zw7c0EcMtfq7H7dOVS4V4T2ERkhHj
UdgJ01fwRdOKc3e1KY8fng5nG6QU9ZgJtTG21u91oL98FdRnjXizlDbEpe6FkzZPVmIj
Q+KT1C7qJl7MGObAGdEolzyocD9c3Bh+DQf6mNCX6eLPrA/QQsmjSbgzQ32OZU7onSrU
jVmNLG+Yt3DUlNxzy1cpa33wJX3CSPAnmtf8nhgfzV+CqMg8UTVPlvNDwtjc0fiDaxWy
0SyA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533iTFE7vDEwua6TibQlYy+me/dI7MYB4yBeReoZjxXTplMaOBEd
sgM4Lh4lPSTkmW2USflSmV0e3qy9JYed8vmJTKW/WQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz8FKJdJ6nqZJ8tF8UuSclfN4AF+y5dJY5zBI9IynLTailE7BmTurdgEeIaSvMxwtsBhzbkoBKbQlFxzpxdD68=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:5cb:b0:472:f7e:a5f5 with SMTP id
o11-20020a05651205cb00b004720f7ea5f5mr10410050lfo.358.1653147482468; Sat, 21
May 2022 08:38:02 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <Q26yJ8xABAnyKIAJ7nAt5er5Tok-tqvbQYhN7Wxh1xdlod-Kg5d7jefrxEgeini54ZIPup3jIGjmTx1gZBKEIjT7mYSQlXcTwG-Olo4pz8E=@protonmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <Q26yJ8xABAnyKIAJ7nAt5er5Tok-tqvbQYhN7Wxh1xdlod-Kg5d7jefrxEgeini54ZIPup3jIGjmTx1gZBKEIjT7mYSQlXcTwG-Olo4pz8E=@protonmail.com>
From: Bram Cohen <bram@chia.net>
Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 08:37:51 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHUJnBCjYpVVsR2gVzsODwVgjmFCsTEmi7=KYAm4i32j5sK3RA@mail.gmail.com>
To: alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007446bf05df8764bd"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 May 2022 14:29:01 +0000
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] CTV BIP Meeting #9 Notes
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 May 2022 15:38:06 -0000
--0000000000007446bf05df8764bd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 9:17 AM alicexbt via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> MEV could be one the issues associated with general covenants. There are
> some resources on https://mev.day if anyone interested to read more about
> it.
>
One of the top things to do about MEV is to make all transactions in a
block simultaneous, so for example if you have a price oracle it can be
limited to only reporting one price per block so although it can be
manipulated to either report a high or low price it can't simultaneously do
both. In Bitcoin ordering is strictly enforced but there's a loophole that
things which happen in the same transaction do happen simultaneously, so
future extensions could be made to only sign things they care about and are
okay with transactions getting aggregated just by smushing them together.
That of course requires a new signature opcode, because current signatures
always sign the whole transaction.
--0000000000007446bf05df8764bd
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 9:17 AM alicexbt =
via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org=
">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial;font-size:14px"><span>MEV could be one the issues associated wi=
th general covenants. There are some resources on <a rel=3D"noreferrer nofo=
llow noopener" href=3D"https://mev.day" target=3D"_blank">https://mev.day</=
a> if anyone interested to read more about it.</span></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>One of the top things to do about MEV is to make all=
transactions in a block simultaneous, so for example if you have a price o=
racle it can be limited to only reporting one price per block so although i=
t can be manipulated to either report a high or low price it can't simu=
ltaneously do both. In Bitcoin ordering is strictly enforced but there'=
s a loophole that things which happen in the same transaction do happen sim=
ultaneously, so future extensions could be made to only sign things they ca=
re about and are okay with transactions getting aggregated just by smushing=
them together. That of course requires a new signature opcode, because cur=
rent signatures always sign the whole transaction.</div></div></div>
--0000000000007446bf05df8764bd--
|
