1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
|
Return-Path: <gmaxwell@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8740CE5
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:22 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-ua0-f172.google.com (mail-ua0-f172.google.com
[209.85.217.172])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47E99734
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:22 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-ua0-f172.google.com with SMTP id c2-v6so3001377uae.4
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:39:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id
:subject:to:cc;
bh=zG6u/5mg77STaTs0UgWkzlvBW/m547/zlW9u3xGgeeY=;
b=T7ABUH5NMwqvrP3lWGCacEZ9je5I8kjP9L28aM3zzGkmfucgferR+hs1LtAtONy5oA
PcUlE/H/l3g5rcFs7Wn9s3+Xje0loCd3bMqBUyOMo6LKcZhMO2Skb9zKmdJSfVAQb6q6
88yJcqH9y9oHqSzD/m3SS5Vx05NkHhBKC9sW0oo4II+cwMybflJTkMpoFbD3dRGWTvV7
KTNJQ+m9ZpQftpLK6z8XR4CMD5/vE7cWt34IOp6mbAJ4TSuKDfCfzPun4skMUgKgYFHl
umSjK68rPkmm4NG9K77MeOCDFfzA3QEg4ITm45vHoQ5IPbKnO1a/aBGVmGoQ6ueM9I+o
AYRQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from
:date:message-id:subject:to:cc;
bh=zG6u/5mg77STaTs0UgWkzlvBW/m547/zlW9u3xGgeeY=;
b=Bbx1E9L5QYVE6vgmqppDrKGEtN+wN8AnBQnNlVDwMwnFYfOrKfv1DT9+qcGPQxX5gb
z8Evq5rzVdPEQxBj2LijVuA+sgvaWGFvBBynYkZb6Y5GfIjzczkM1QuGFIilZP0iDPQF
lzUx2AQlX76/rsWMb59lNyhbo33DKrxPbN+CgDYpI1xkIiBaD1qDqrn0Es16eOulBZUp
8ylu5p8PwTgHm0dQ8B/zGubvkUhMzu5ijsK8+3Wtxg/e+LdmkSfydnwqxDlB6FK5FXr1
RQthlHTXhdSngSO8nX34EbjOmf+djaSz81WfG/4djFXMYYH0QsMqaOrwZj0dos74t+lN
eDEQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0J2lSSiZ4pndo30SqEQwC8ka/AqQcfiXgdjEkWfmnDPv2RZFca
6WYcoZgdViskT1as7g10Q5Ciu5gUfOg9Fs0sQ4w=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLoso3o9Tl0kLSfKM2gHr0oqNSOrcZPYJldXAzWkzaTaLXbJXhXsXR4GlXIJyVCq0rJP4kfAtn0iffZeNQW3G0=
X-Received: by 2002:ab0:18ee:: with SMTP id
d46-v6mr17537738uah.39.1529617161370;
Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: gmaxwell@gmail.com
Received: by 2002:a67:5193:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:39:20
-0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20180621195654.GC99379@coinkite.com>
References: <CAPg+sBhGMxXatsyCAqeboQKH8ASSFAfiXzxyXR9UrNFnah5PPw@mail.gmail.com>
<CHCiA27GTRiVfkF1DoHdroJL1rQS77ocB42nWxIIhqi_fY3VbB3jsMQveRJOtsJiA4RaCAVe3VZmLZsXVYS3A5wVLNP2OgKQiHE0T27P2qc=@achow101.com>
<21a616f5-7a17-35b9-85ea-f779f20a6a2d@satoshilabs.com>
<20180621195654.GC99379@coinkite.com>
From: Gregory Maxwell <greg@xiph.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:20 +0000
X-Google-Sender-Auth: uE-z9ZqmtlQ9VbOcBLLtYaz4QhY
Message-ID: <CAAS2fgTLJQGzE7aHGedug_A5mqw1=Rd_28Ha6YiZ9m26Lyg=ww@mail.gmail.com>
To: Peter Gray <peter@coinkite.com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 174 thoughts
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:22 -0000
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:56 PM, Peter D. Gray via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> PSBT is something we need, and has been missing from the ecosystem
> for a long time. Let's push this out and start talking about future
> versions after we learn from this one.
When you implement proposals that have little to no public discussion
about them you take the risk that your work needs to be changed when
other people do actually begin reviewing the work. It is incredibly
demoralizing as a designer and a reviewer to have proposals that were
put out for discussion show up implemented in things with these vested
interests then insisting that they not be refined further. I think
kind of handling is toxic to performing development in public.
Although it's silly enough that it won't happen, I think our industry
would be better off if there was a social norm that anytime someone
insists an unfinished proposal shouldn't be changed because they
already implemented it that the spec should _always_ be changed, in
order to discourage further instances of that conduct.
|