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From: Moral Agent <ethan.scruples@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2019 14:24:10 -0400
Message-ID: <CACiOHGyJ9WZhp2HG1GJdfmkD-nUTFaeVevDJFVRB_j7yBSt6Ew@mail.gmail.com>
To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_CODESEPARATOR Re: BIP Proposal: The Great
 Consensus Cleanup
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>Lock in a blockheight to get rid of it 10 years in the future.

And then make UTXOs containing OP_CODESEAPRATOR (etc.) and mined prior to
the soft fork activation standard, with weight penalties as appropriate, so
there would be no difficulty spending them before the cutoff?

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 10:55 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

>
> Opinion: Lock in a blockheight to get rid of it 10 years in the future.
> Use it as press that Bitcoin is going to lose $1,000,000 if some mystery
> person does not put their transaction through by then, try for global
> presses. Use the opportunity to get rid of it while you are able. Once
> gazetted anything is public knowledge.
>
> Regards,
> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org <
> bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on behalf of Matt Corallo
> via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, 9 March 2019 7:14 AM
> *To:* Sjors Provoost
> *Cc:* Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_CODESEPARATOR Re: BIP Proposal: The Great
> Consensus Cleanup
>
> Aside from the complexity issues here, note that for a user to be
> adversely affect, they probably have to have pre-signed lock-timed
> transactions. Otherwise, in the crazy case that such a user exists, they
> should have no problem claiming the funds before activation of a soft-fork
> (and just switching to the swgwit equivalent, or some other equivalent
> scheme). Thus, adding additional restrictions like tx size limits will
> equally break txn.
>
> > On Mar 8, 2019, at 14:12, Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> (1) It has been well documented again and again that there is desire to
> remove OP_CODESEPARATOR, (2) it is well-documented OP_CODESEPARATOR in
> non-segwit scripts represents a rather significant vulnerability in Bitcoin
> today, and (3) lots of effort has gone into attempting to find practical
> use-cases for OP_CODESEPARATOR's specific construction, with no successes
> as of yet. I strongly, strongly disagree that the highly-unlikely remote
> possibility that someone created something before which could be rendered
> unspendable is sufficient reason to not fix a vulnerability in Bitcoin
> today.
> >>
> >>> I suggest an alternative whereby the execution of OP_CODESEPARATOR
> increases the transactions weight suitably as to temper the vulnerability
> caused by it.  Alternatively there could be some sort of limit (maybe 1) on
> the maximum number of OP_CODESEPARATORs allowed to be executed per script,
> but that would require an argument as to why exceeding that limit isn't
> reasonable.
> >>
> >> You could equally argue, however, that any such limit could render some
> moderately-large transaction unspendable, so I'm somewhat skeptical of this
> argument. Note that OP_CODESEPARATOR is non-standard, so getting them mined
> is rather difficult in any case.
> >
> > Although I'm not a fan of extra complicity, just to explore these two
> ideas a bit further.
> >
> > What if such a transaction:
> >
> > 1. must have one input; and
> > 2. must be smaller than 400 vbytes; and
> > 3. must spend from a UTXO older than fork activation
> >
> > Adding such a contextual check seems rather painful, perhaps comparable
> to nLockTime. Anything more specific than the above, e.g. counting the
> number of OP_CODESEPARATOR calls, seems like guess work.
> >
> > Transaction weight currently doesn't consider OP codes, it only
> considers if bytes are part of the witness. Changing that to something more
> akin to Ethereums gas pricing sounds too complicated to even consider.
> >
> >
> > I would also like to believe that whoever went through the trouble of
> using OP_CODESEPARATOR reads this list.
> >
> > Sjors
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvet=
ica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:16px">&gt;Lock in a blockheight to=
 get rid of it 10 years in the future.</span><br><div><br></div><div>And th=
en make UTXOs containing OP_CODESEAPRATOR (etc.) and mined prior to the sof=
t fork activation standard, with weight penalties as appropriate, so there =
would be no difficulty spending them before the cutoff?</div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 10=
, 2019 at 10:55 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linux=
foundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_7060861672063576034signature">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:black;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans=
-serif,serif,EmojiFont">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont">Opi=
nion: Lock in a blockheight to get rid of it 10 years in the future. Use it=
 as press that Bitcoin is going to lose $1,000,000 if some mystery person d=
oes not put their transaction through
 by then, try for global presses. Use the opportunity to get rid of it whil=
e you are able. Once gazetted anything is public knowledge.<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont"><br=
>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont">Reg=
ards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont">LOR=
D HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_7060861672063576034appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_7060861672063576034divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From=
:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a> &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Matt Co=
rallo via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundati=
on.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 9 March 2019 7:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sjors Provoost<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bitcoin Protocol Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] OP_CODESEPARATOR Re: BIP Proposal: The Gr=
eat Consensus Cleanup</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7060861672063576034BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11pt">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7060861672063576034PlainText">Aside from the complexi=
ty issues here, note that for a user to be adversely affect, they probably =
have to have pre-signed lock-timed transactions. Otherwise, in the crazy ca=
se that such a user exists, they should have no problem claiming
 the funds before activation of a soft-fork (and just switching to the swgw=
it equivalent, or some other equivalent scheme). Thus, adding additional re=
strictions like tx size limits will equally break txn.<br>
<br>
&gt; On Mar 8, 2019, at 14:12, Sjors Provoost &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sjors@s=
provoost.nl" target=3D"_blank">sjors@sprovoost.nl</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; (1) It has been well documented again and again that there is desi=
re to remove OP_CODESEPARATOR, (2) it is well-documented OP_CODESEPARATOR i=
n non-segwit scripts represents a rather significant vulnerability in Bitco=
in today, and (3) lots of effort has gone
 into attempting to find practical use-cases for OP_CODESEPARATOR&#39;s spe=
cific construction, with no successes as of yet. I strongly, strongly disag=
ree that the highly-unlikely remote possibility that someone created someth=
ing before which could be rendered unspendable
 is sufficient reason to not fix a vulnerability in Bitcoin today.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I suggest an alternative whereby the execution of OP_CODESEPAR=
ATOR increases the transactions weight suitably as to temper the vulnerabil=
ity caused by it.=C2=A0 Alternatively there could be some sort of limit (ma=
ybe 1) on the maximum number of OP_CODESEPARATORs
 allowed to be executed per script, but that would require an argument as t=
o why exceeding that limit isn&#39;t reasonable.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; You could equally argue, however, that any such limit could render=
 some moderately-large transaction unspendable, so I&#39;m somewhat skeptic=
al of this argument. Note that OP_CODESEPARATOR is non-standard, so getting=
 them mined is rather difficult in any case.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Although I&#39;m not a fan of extra complicity, just to explore these =
two ideas a bit further.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; What if such a transaction:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 1. must have one input; and<br>
&gt; 2. must be smaller than 400 vbytes; and<br>
&gt; 3. must spend from a UTXO older than fork activation<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Adding such a contextual check seems rather painful, perhaps comparabl=
e to nLockTime. Anything more specific than the above, e.g. counting the nu=
mber of OP_CODESEPARATOR calls, seems like guess work.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Transaction weight currently doesn&#39;t consider OP codes, it only co=
nsiders if bytes are part of the witness. Changing that to something more a=
kin to Ethereums gas pricing sounds too complicated to even consider.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I would also like to believe that whoever went through the trouble of =
using OP_CODESEPARATOR reads this list.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Sjors<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoi=
n-dev</a><br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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