summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/d8/7466ea46ae5f06470cd03d819449c01abc9530
blob: e59ab1e7c31dd2e142793f530668d9637353b6ec (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
Return-Path: <pete@petertodd.org>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E29CC268
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:04:23 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from outmail148101.authsmtp.com (outmail148101.authsmtp.com
	[62.13.148.101])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB418B
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:04:22 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235])
	by punt18.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t6LD4H3M043744;
	Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:04:17 +0100 (BST)
Received: from savin.petertodd.org (75-119-251-161.dsl.teksavvy.com
	[75.119.251.161]) (authenticated bits=128)
	by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t6LD4DhI048012
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
	Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:04:15 +0100 (BST)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:04:12 -0400
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Jorge =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tim=F3n?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
Message-ID: <20150721130412.GA4551@savin.petertodd.org>
References: <CADm_WcZKoMAhYvXbFMbE+5K9HOD75YkQu8_qTW4S6YN6ZMrfjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A9421B.6040605@jrn.me.uk> <55AC29DB.4060800@jrn.me.uk>
	<CABm2gDr6qXzvcpX_To39kCEsnQNTQS4M5Y40Yk_Lw481rjvSag@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CABm2gDr6qXzvcpX_To39kCEsnQNTQS4M5Y40Yk_Lw481rjvSag@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Server-Quench: fdc1675e-2fa8-11e5-b397-002590a15da7
X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at:
	http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse
X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR
	aQdMdAMUEkAYAgsB AmMbWlBeUFl7WGU7 bA9PbARUfEhLXhtr
	VklWR1pVCwQmRRp9 chpqCmBycw1GeXw+ ZEJgWHAVChApdEB6
	RxtJFztXbXphaTUa TRJbfgRJcANIexZF O1F6ACIKLwdSbGoL
	FQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpg CissFRpLGRxDW3Y/ RhsBVSkvEAUOTiN7
	Ixs5LBYAHEtZKEI7 PRM9XhpCFjV6
X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706
X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255)
X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 75.119.251.161/587
X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own
	anti-virus system.
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 102 - kick the can down the road to 2MB
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:04:24 -0000


--BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:26:35AM +0200, Jorge Tim=F3n via bitcoin-dev wro=
te:
> I still disagree. Using height instead of time may make the
> implementation more complex by requiring some additional preparations
> but using height is in fact a simpler design. Why relay on clocks that
> we know will differ in different computers and places when we have a
> universal tick with every block?

The Bitcoin protocol fundementally uses time in a consensus-critical
manner anyway; miners vote on what time it is via the median time
mechanism.

Triggering events based on median time is compatable with consensus and
gives more human scale predictability as to when events may happen. In
addition the median time is guaranteed to be monotonic by the consensus
rules.

See the version bits proposal for an example of its use:

https://gist.github.com/sipa/bf69659f43e763540550#Specification


Having said that, in general triggering events without verifying a
supermajority of miner support can be very dangerous. Without miner
support the chain is insecure, and can be attacked. For instance a
blocksize limit increase that a majority of miners choose not to
implement raises huge risks of reorg for any miners who attempt to
create large blocks, and huge risks of payment reversal for any
merchants accepting transactions in such blocks. Note how with BIP102,
extending the original Bitcoin chain is inherently an attack on the
Garzik chain.

For that reason I think BIP102 is extremely poorly designed. I can only
conclude that Jeff Garzik is either deliberately trolling us and/or
manipulating discussion with a badly designed proposal that he doesn't
actually expect to be adopted verbatim, or is incompetent.

--=20
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
0000000000000000031c12b6af038524fd5dd28115b7f5591e046423cebaf6d1

--BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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==
=g6Aw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3--