summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/c9/44e313d63b119b8fca2cceefc92f4b6d7abc07
blob: 0a355de9f64ddb9432cb4434b79f3ab704fc5ad3 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
Return-Path: <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B94A5C0012
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat, 18 Dec 2021 16:52:02 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0476405E7
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat, 18 Dec 2021 16:52:02 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.197
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3,
 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id 2PJC71b1AtrK
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat, 18 Dec 2021 16:52:01 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3E7C4049C
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat, 18 Dec 2021 16:52:00 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-lf1-f46.google.com (mail-lf1-f46.google.com
 [209.85.167.46]) (authenticated bits=0)
 (User authenticated as jlrubin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
 by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 1BIGpv18016204
 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT)
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Sat, 18 Dec 2021 11:51:58 -0500
Received: by mail-lf1-f46.google.com with SMTP id l22so11457939lfg.7
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:51:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532hEUXD/n+sOd/P2uGtlkspDZ6rJdjVI/GtH98LCeE8rXItMwEG
 hyp+JAzZ56h8oUQHDQ2BjZx0lS7lwcCzvCMkZfI=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzQZHvSlgziIvCFUHPMxxw8KgRDZuFpzWQRuNZhUGZedbisxaaisTcNgANh8lAFGlb87o97S2/wBLG6Gj6GsIc=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1287:: with SMTP id
 u7mr7983770lfs.226.1639846317219; 
 Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:51:57 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CALZpt+F2b3tdu1+kLZiBPCH2O-pDzZytoRFtX6X0a8UX4OBrDQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALZpt+F2b3tdu1+kLZiBPCH2O-pDzZytoRFtX6X0a8UX4OBrDQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 08:51:46 -0800
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CAD5xwhjVkxgu2+M+Ft576GYM6Tv=ZEwtV82v1cLeYaoU5mSRnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD5xwhjVkxgu2+M+Ft576GYM6Tv=ZEwtV82v1cLeYaoU5mSRnA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.com>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003964ef05d36e7990"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Full-RBF in Bitcoin Core 24.0
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2021 16:52:02 -0000

--0000000000003964ef05d36e7990
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Small idea:

ease into getting rid of full-rbf by keeping the flag working, but make
enforcement of non-replaceability something that happens n seconds after
first seen.

this reduces the ability to partition the mempools by broadcasting
irreplaceable conflicts all at once, and slowly eases clients off of
relying on non-RBF.

we might start with 60 seconds, and then double every release till we get
to 600 at which point we disable it.
--
@JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>


On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 10:00 AM Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm writing to propose deprecation of opt-in RBF in favor of full-RBF as
> the Bitcoin Core's default replacement policy in version 24.0. As a
> reminder, the next release is 22.0, aimed for August 1st, assuming
> agreement is reached, this policy change would enter into deployment phase
> a year from now.
>
> Even if this replacement policy has been deemed as highly controversial a
> few years ago, ongoing and anticipated changes in the Bitcoin ecosystem are
> motivating this proposal.
>
> # RBF opt-out as a DoS Vector against Multi-Party Funded Transactions
>
> As explained in "On Mempool Funny Games against Multi-Party Funded
> Transactions'', 2nd issue [0], an attacker can easily DoS a multi-party
> funded transactions by propagating an RBF opt-out double-spend of its
> contributed input before the honest transaction is broadcasted by the
> protocol orchester. DoSes are qualified in the sense of either an attacker
> wasting timevalue of victim's inputs or forcing exhaustion of the
> fee-bumping  reserve.
>
> This affects a series of Bitcoin protocols such as Coinjoin, onchain DLCs
> and dual-funded LN channels. As those protocols are still in the early
> phase of deployment, it doesn't seem to have been executed in the wild for
> now.  That said, considering that dual-funded are more efficient from a
> liquidity standpoint, we can expect them to be widely relied on, once
> Lightning enters in a more mature phase. At that point, it should become
> economically rational for liquidity service providers to launch those DoS
> attacks against their competitors to hijack user traffic.
>
> Beyond that, presence of those DoSes will complicate the design and
> deployment of multi-party Bitcoin protocols such as payment
> pools/multi-party channels. Note, Lightning Pool isn't affected as there is
> a preliminary stage where batch participants are locked-in their funds
> within an account witnessScript shared with the orchestrer.
>
> Of course, even assuming full-rbf, propagation of the multi-party funded
> transactions can still be interfered with by an attacker, simply
> broadcasting a double-spend with a feerate equivalent to the honest
> transaction. However, it tightens the attack scenario to a scorched earth
> approach, where the attacker has to commit equivalent fee-bumping reserve
> to maintain the pinning and might lose the "competing" fees to miners.
>
> # RBF opt-out as a Mempools Partitions Vector
>
> A longer-term issue is the risk of mempools malicious partitions, where an
> attacker exploits network topology or divergence in mempools policies to
> partition network mempools in different subsets. From then a wide range of
> attacks can be envisioned such as package pinning [1], artificial
> congestion to provoke LN channels closure or manipulation of
> fee-estimator's feerate (the Core's one wouldn't be affected as it relies
> on block confirmation, though other fee estimators designs deployed across
> the ecosystem are likely going to be affected).
>
> Traditionally, mempools partitions have been gauged as a spontaneous
> outcome of a distributed systems like Bitcoin p2p network and I'm not aware
> it has been studied in-depth for adversarial purposes. Though, deployment
> of second-layer
> protocols, heavily relying on sanity of a local mempool for fee-estimation
> and robust propagation of their time-sensitive transactions might lead to
> reconsider this position. Acknowledging this, RBF opt-out is a low-cost
> partitioning tool, of which the existence nullifies most of potential
> progresses to mitigate malicious partitioning.
>
>
> To resume, opt-in RBF doesn't suit well deployment of robust second-layers
> protocol, even if those issues are still early and deserve more research.
> At the same time, I believe a meaningful subset of the ecosystem  are still
> relying
> on 0-confs transactions, even if their security is relying on far weaker
> assumptions (opt-in RBF rule is a policy rule, not a consensus one) [2] A
> rapid change of Core's mempool rules would be harming their quality of
> services and should be
> weighed carefully. On the other hand, it would be great to nudge them
> towards more secure handling of their 0-confs flows [3]
>
> Let's examine what could be deployed ecosystem-wise as enhancements to the
> 0-confs security model.
>
> # Proactive security models : Double-spend Monitoring/Receiver-side
> Fee-Topping with Package Relay
>
> From an attacker viewpoint, opt-in RBF isn't a big blocker to successful
> double-spends. Any motivated attacker can modify Core to mass-connect to a
> wide portion of the network, announce txA to this subset, announce txA' to
> the
> merchant. TxA' propagation will be encumbered by the privacy-preserving
> inventory timers (`OUTBOUND_INVENTORY_BROADCAST_INTERVAL`), of which an
> attacker has no care to respect.
>
> To detect a successful double-spend attempt, a Bitcoin service should run
> few full-nodes with well-spread connection graphs and unlinkable between
> them, to avoid being identified then maliciously partitioned from the rest
> of the network.
>
> I believe this tactic is already deployed by few Bitcoin services, and
> even one can throw flame at it because it over consumes network resources
> (bandwidth, connection slots, ...), it does procure a security advantage to
> the ones doing it.
>
> One further improvement on top of this protection could be to react after
> the double-spend detection by attaching a CPFP to the merchant transaction,
> with a higher package feerate than the double-spend. Expected deployment of
> package-relay as a p2p mechanism/mempool policy in Bitcoin Core should
> enable it to do so.
>
> # Reactive security models : EconomicReputation-based Compensations
>
> Another approach could be to react after the fact if a double-spend has
> been qualified. If the sender is already known to the service provider, the
> service account can be slashed.  If the sender is a low-trusted
> counterparty to the merchant, "side-trust" models could be relied on. For
> e.g a LN pubkey with a stacked reputation from your autopilot, LSATs, stake
> certificates, a HTLC-as-a-fidelity-bond, ... The space is quite wide there
> but I foresee those trust-minimized, decentralized solutions being adopted
> by the LN ecosystem to patch the risks when you enter in a channel/HTLC
> operation with an anonymous counterparty.
>
> What other cool new tools could be considered to enhance 0-confs security ?
>
> To conclude, let's avoid replaying the contentious threads of a few years
> ago. What this new thread highlights is the fact that a transaction
> relay/mempool acceptance policy might be beneficial to some class of
> already-deployed
> Bitcoin applications while being detrimental to newer ones. How do we
> preserve the current interests of 0-confs users while enabling upcoming
> interests of fancy L2s to flourish is a good conversation to have. I think.
>
> If there is ecosystem agreement on switching to full-RBF, but 0.24 sounds
> too early, let's defer it to 0.25 or 0.26. I don't think Core has a
> consistent deprecation process w.r.t to policy rules heavily relied-on by
> Bitcoin users, if we do so let sets a precedent satisfying as many folks as
> we can.
>
> Cheers,
> Antoine
>
> [0]
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2021-May/003033.html
>
> [1] See scenario 3 :
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2020-June/002758.html
>
> [2] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10823#issuecomment-466485121
>
> [3] And the LN ecosystem does have an interest to fix zero-confs security,
> if "turbo-channels"-like become normalized for mobile nodes
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

--0000000000003964ef05d36e7990
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Small idea:</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">ease in=
to getting rid of full-rbf by keeping the flag working, but make enforcemen=
t of non-replaceability something that happens n seconds after first seen.<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans=
-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#00=
0000">this reduces the ability to partition the mempools by broadcasting ir=
replaceable=C2=A0conflicts all at once, and slowly eases clients off of rel=
ying on non-RBF.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small;color:#000000">we might start with 60 seconds, and then double ever=
y release till we get to 600 at which point we disable it.</div><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">--<br><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_=
blank">@JeremyRubin</a><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=
=3D"_blank"></a></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 10:00 AM Anto=
ine Riard via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoun=
dation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,<br><br>I&#39;m writing to propose=
 deprecation of opt-in RBF in favor of full-RBF as the Bitcoin Core&#39;s d=
efault replacement policy in version 24.0. As a reminder, the next release =
is 22.0, aimed for August 1st, assuming agreement is reached, this policy c=
hange would enter into deployment phase a year from now. <br><br>Even if th=
is replacement policy has been deemed as highly controversial a few years a=
go, ongoing and anticipated changes in the Bitcoin ecosystem are motivating=
 this proposal.<br><br># RBF opt-out as a DoS Vector against Multi-Party Fu=
nded Transactions<br><br>As explained in &quot;On Mempool Funny Games again=
st Multi-Party Funded Transactions&#39;&#39;, 2nd issue [0], an attacker ca=
n easily DoS a multi-party funded transactions by propagating an RBF opt-ou=
t double-spend of its contributed input before the honest transaction is br=
oadcasted by the protocol orchester. DoSes are qualified in the sense of ei=
ther an attacker wasting timevalue of victim&#39;s inputs or forcing exhaus=
tion of the fee-bumping =C2=A0reserve.<br><br>This affects a series of Bitc=
oin protocols such as Coinjoin, onchain DLCs and dual-funded LN channels. A=
s those protocols are still in the early phase of deployment, it doesn&#39;=
t seem to have been executed in the wild for now.=C2=A0 That said, consider=
ing that dual-funded are more efficient from a liquidity standpoint, we can=
 expect them to be widely relied on, once Lightning enters in a more mature=
 phase. At that point, it should become economically rational for liquidity=
 service providers to launch those DoS attacks against their competitors to=
 hijack user traffic.<br><br>Beyond that, presence of those DoSes will comp=
licate the design and deployment of multi-party Bitcoin protocols such as p=
ayment pools/multi-party channels. Note, Lightning Pool isn&#39;t affected =
as there is a preliminary stage where batch participants are locked-in thei=
r funds within an account witnessScript shared with the orchestrer.<br><br>=
Of course, even assuming full-rbf, propagation of the multi-party funded tr=
ansactions can still be interfered with by an attacker, simply broadcasting=
 a double-spend with a feerate equivalent to the honest transaction. Howeve=
r, it tightens the attack scenario to a scorched earth approach, where the =
attacker has to commit equivalent fee-bumping reserve to maintain the pinni=
ng and might lose the &quot;competing&quot; fees to miners.<br><br># RBF op=
t-out as a Mempools Partitions Vector<br><br>A longer-term issue is the ris=
k of mempools malicious partitions, where an attacker exploits network topo=
logy or divergence in mempools policies to partition network mempools in di=
fferent subsets. From then a wide range of attacks can be envisioned such a=
s package pinning [1], artificial congestion to provoke LN channels closure=
 or manipulation of fee-estimator&#39;s feerate (the Core&#39;s one wouldn&=
#39;t be affected as it relies on block confirmation, though other fee esti=
mators designs deployed across the ecosystem are likely going to be affecte=
d).<br><br>Traditionally, mempools partitions have been gauged as a spontan=
eous outcome of a distributed systems like Bitcoin p2p network and I&#39;m =
not aware it has been studied in-depth for adversarial purposes. Though, de=
ployment of second-layer<br>protocols, heavily relying on sanity of a local=
 mempool for fee-estimation and robust propagation of their time-sensitive =
transactions might lead to reconsider this position. Acknowledging this, RB=
F opt-out is a low-cost partitioning tool, of which the existence nullifies=
 most of potential progresses to mitigate malicious partitioning.<br><br><b=
r>To resume, opt-in RBF doesn&#39;t suit well deployment of robust second-l=
ayers protocol, even if those issues are still early and deserve more resea=
rch. At the same time, I believe a meaningful subset of the ecosystem =C2=
=A0are still relying<br>on 0-confs transactions, even if their security is =
relying on far weaker assumptions (opt-in RBF rule is a policy rule, not a =
consensus one) [2] A rapid change of Core&#39;s mempool rules would be harm=
ing their quality of services and should be<br>weighed carefully. On the ot=
her hand, it would be great to nudge them towards more secure handling of t=
heir 0-confs flows [3]<br><br>Let&#39;s examine what could be deployed ecos=
ystem-wise as enhancements to the 0-confs security model.<br><br># Proactiv=
e security models : Double-spend Monitoring/Receiver-side Fee-Topping with =
Package Relay<br><br>From an attacker viewpoint, opt-in RBF isn&#39;t a big=
 blocker to successful double-spends. Any motivated attacker can modify Cor=
e to mass-connect to a wide portion of the network, announce txA to this su=
bset, announce txA&#39; to the<br>merchant. TxA&#39; propagation will be en=
cumbered by the privacy-preserving inventory timers (`OUTBOUND_INVENTORY_BR=
OADCAST_INTERVAL`), of which an attacker has no care to respect.<br><br>To =
detect a successful double-spend attempt, a Bitcoin service should run few =
full-nodes with well-spread connection graphs and unlinkable between them, =
to avoid being identified then maliciously partitioned from the rest of the=
 network.<br><br>I believe this tactic is already deployed by few Bitcoin s=
ervices, and even one can throw flame at it because it over consumes networ=
k resources (bandwidth, connection slots, ...), it does procure a security =
advantage to the ones doing it.<br><br>One further improvement on top of th=
is protection could be to react after the double-spend detection by attachi=
ng a CPFP to the merchant transaction, with a higher package feerate than t=
he double-spend. Expected deployment of package-relay as a p2p mechanism/me=
mpool policy in Bitcoin Core should enable it to do so.<br><br># Reactive s=
ecurity models : EconomicReputation-based Compensations<br><br>Another appr=
oach could be to react after the fact if a double-spend has been qualified.=
 If the sender is already known to the service provider, the service accoun=
t can be slashed.=C2=A0 If the sender is a low-trusted counterparty to the =
merchant, &quot;side-trust&quot; models could be relied on. For e.g a LN pu=
bkey with a stacked reputation from your autopilot, LSATs, stake certificat=
es, a HTLC-as-a-fidelity-bond, ... The space is quite wide there but I fore=
see those trust-minimized, decentralized solutions being adopted by the LN =
ecosystem to patch the risks when you enter in a channel/HTLC operation wit=
h an anonymous counterparty. <br><br></div><div>What other cool new tools c=
ould be considered to enhance 0-confs security ?<br></div><div><br>To concl=
ude, let&#39;s avoid replaying the contentious threads of a few years ago. =
What this new thread highlights is the fact that a transaction relay/mempoo=
l acceptance policy might be beneficial to some class of already-deployed <=
br>Bitcoin applications while being detrimental to newer ones. How do we pr=
eserve the current interests of 0-confs users while enabling upcoming inter=
ests of fancy L2s to flourish is a good conversation to have. I think.<br><=
br>If there is ecosystem agreement on switching to full-RBF, but 0.24 sound=
s too early, let&#39;s defer it to 0.25 or 0.26. I don&#39;t think Core has=
 a consistent deprecation process w.r.t to policy rules heavily relied-on b=
y Bitcoin users, if we do so let sets a precedent satisfying as many folks =
as we can.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Antoine<br><br>[0] <a href=3D"https://lists.li=
nuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2021-May/003033.html" target=3D"_=
blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2021-May/0=
03033.html</a><br><br>[1] See scenario 3 : <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfo=
undation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2020-June/002758.html" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2020-June/0027=
58.html</a><br><br>[2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1=
0823#issuecomment-466485121" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/b=
itcoin/pull/10823#issuecomment-466485121</a><br><br></div>[3] And the LN ec=
osystem does have an interest to fix zero-confs security, if &quot;turbo-ch=
annels&quot;-like become normalized for mobile nodes<br></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000003964ef05d36e7990--