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From: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>
In-Reply-To: <BLU170-W124FFC4A5D42BC516663032A5680@phx.gbl>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 21:50:26 +0200
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To: Paul Lyon <pmlyon@hotmail.ca>
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Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes?
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You have to load headers sequantially to be able to connect them and =
determine the longest chain.

Blocks can be loaded in random order once you have their order given by =
the headers.
Computing the UTXO however will force you to at least temporarily store =
the blocks unless you have plenty of RAM.=20

Regards,

Tamas Blummer
http://bitsofproof.com

On 07.04.2014, at 21:30, Paul Lyon <pmlyon@hotmail.ca> wrote:

> I hope I'm not thread-jacking here, apologies if so, but that's the =
approach I've taken with the node I'm working on.
>=20
> Headers can be downloaded and stored in any order, it'll make sense of =
what the winning chain is. Blocks don't need to be downloaded in any =
particular order and they don't need to be saved to disk, the UTXO is =
fully self-contained. That way the concern of storing blocks for seeding =
(or not) is wholly separated from syncing the UTXO. This allows me to do =
the initial blockchain sync in ~6 hours when I use my SSD. I only need =
enough disk space to store the UTXO, and then whatever amount of block =
data the user would want to store for the health of the network.
>=20
> This project is a bitcoin learning exercise for me, so I can only hope =
I don't have any critical design flaws in there. :)
>=20
> From: tamas@bitsofproof.com
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 21:20:31 +0200
> To: gmaxwell@gmail.com
> CC: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes?
>=20
>=20
> Once headers are loaded first there is no reason for sequential =
loading.=20
>=20
> Validation has to be sequantial, but that step can be deferred until =
the blocks before a point are loaded and continous.
>=20
> Tamas Blummer
> http://bitsofproof.com
>=20
> On 07.04.2014, at 21:03, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Tamas Blummer =
<tamas@bitsofproof.com> wrote:
>>> therefore I guess it is more handy to return some bitmap of =
pruned/full
>>> blocks than ranges.
>>=20
>> A bitmap also means high overhead and=97 if it's used to advertise
>> non-contiguous blocks=97 poor locality, since blocks are fetched
>> sequentially.
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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Continuous Integration Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment =
Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the =
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> _______________________________________________ Bitcoin-development =
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Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lis=
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">You =
have to load headers sequantially to be able to connect them and =
determine the longest chain.<div><br></div><div>Blocks can be loaded in =
random order once you have their order given by the =
headers.</div><div>Computing the UTXO however will force you to at least =
temporarily store the blocks unless you have plenty of =
RAM.&nbsp;<br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"><br style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; float: none; display: inline !important;">Regards,</span><br =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important;">Tamas =
Blummer</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; float: none; display: inline !important;"><a =
href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com">http://bitsofproof.com</a></span>
</span></div>
<br><div><div>On 07.04.2014, at 21:30, Paul Lyon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pmlyon@hotmail.ca">pmlyon@hotmail.ca</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"hmmessage" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div dir=3D"ltr">I hope I'm not =
thread-jacking here, apologies if so, but that's the approach I've taken =
with the node I'm working on.<div><br></div><div>Headers can be =
downloaded and stored in any order, it'll make sense of what the winning =
chain is. Blocks don't need to be downloaded in any particular order and =
they don't need to be saved to disk, the UTXO is fully self-contained. =
That way the concern of storing blocks for seeding (or not) is wholly =
separated from syncing the UTXO. This allows me to do the initial =
blockchain sync in ~6 hours when I use my SSD. I only need enough disk =
space to store the UTXO, and then whatever amount of block data the user =
would want to store for the health of the =
network.</div><div><br></div><div>This project is a bitcoin learning =
exercise for me, so I can only hope I don't have any critical design =
flaws in there. :)<br><br><div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:tamas@bitsofproof.com">tamas@bitsofproof.com</a><br>Date: =
Mon, 7 Apr 2014 21:20:31 +0200<br>To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com">gmaxwell@gmail.com</a><br>CC:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">bitcoin-developm=
ent@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why =
are we bleeding nodes?<br><br><div><br></div><div>Once headers are =
loaded first there is no reason for sequential =
loading.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Validation has to be sequantial, =
but that step can be deferred until the blocks before a point are loaded =
and continous.</div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">Tamas Blummer</span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: =
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important;"><a =
href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com/">http://bitsofproof.com</a></span></span><=
/div><br><div><div>On 07.04.2014, at 21:03, Gregory Maxwell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com">gmaxwell@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Tamas Blummer &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tamas@bitsofproof.com">tamas@bitsofproof.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">therefore I guess it is more handy =
to return some bitmap of pruned/full<br>blocks than =
ranges.<br></blockquote><br>A bitmap also means high overhead and=97 if =
it's used to advertise<br>non-contiguous blocks=97 poor locality, since =
blocks are =
fetched<br>sequentially.<br><br></blockquote></div><br><br>---------------=
--------------------------------------------------------------- Put Bad =
Developers to Shame Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous =
Integration Continuously Automate Build, Test &amp; Deployment Start a =
new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.<a =
href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees">http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Clo=
udbees</a><br>_______________________________________________ =
Bitcoin-development mailing list<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-developm=
ent@lists.sourceforge.net</a><a =
href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development">=
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a></div>=
</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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