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From: Maksim Solovjov <maxim.solovjov@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 22:58:45 +0300
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To: Karl-Johan Alm <karljohan-alm@garage.co.jp>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Few questions regarding ListTransaction
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OK.
Thank you guys for clarification.
On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Karl-Johan Alm via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Thanks for clarifying!
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 6:48 PM, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote=
:
> > Good morning Karl-Johan Alm,
> >
> > To clarify:
> >
> > Nothing prevents a miner from completely ignoring nSequence when puttin=
g
> transactions in blocks.
> >
> > Unconfirmed transactions are, by definition, not recorded in blocks. S=
o
> if there is a transaction 0xFFFFFFF nSequence and fee 1000 satoshi, and
> another conflicting transaction 0xFFFFFFF nSequence and fee 100000000
> satoshi, miners can include the latter one even if the first one came to
> their knowledge first, regardless nSequence.
> >
> > Thus, in the end "full replace-by-fee", where nSequence is IGNORED for
> purposes of replace-by-fee, is expected to become the norm, and we should
> really be designing our wallets and so on so that we only trust
> transactions that have confirmations.
> >
> > The "nSequence=3D0xFFFFFFFF means opt-OUT of RBF" convention is only
> followed by fullnodes running standard bitcoind. Nothing prevents miners
> from running patched bitcoind that ignores this rule, and connecting with
> similar peers who also ignore this rule.
> >
> > Regards,
> > ZmnSCPxj
> >
> >
> > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> >
> > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Origina=
l Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90
> >
> > On April 11, 2018 5:37 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 05:10:43PM +0900, Karl-Johan Alm wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:52 PM, Peter Todd pete@petertodd.org wrote=
:
> >> >
> >> > > Or via full replace-by-fee, which appears to be used by a
> significant minority
> >> > >
> >> > > of miners:
> >> >
> >> > I was of the impression that final transactions (sequence=3D0xffffff=
ff)
> >> >
> >> > cannot be RBF'd.
> >>
> >> My full-replace-by-fee tree ignores that. It also does preferential
> peering to
> >>
> >> ensure it's well connected with likewise peers, and thus the whole
> network.
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------
> >>
> >> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> >>
> >> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> >>
> >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> >>
> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
--001a114b3aae1bb3f80569981169
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">OK.<div><br></div><div>Thank you guys for clarification.</=
div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed,=
Apr 11, 2018 at 1:00 PM, Karl-Johan Alm via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">=
<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks for clarifying!<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 6:48 PM, ZmnSCPxj <<a href=3D"mailto:ZmnSCPxj@pr=
otonmail.com">ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Good morning Karl-Johan Alm,<br>
><br>
> To clarify:<br>
><br>
> Nothing prevents a miner from completely ignoring nSequence when putti=
ng transactions in blocks.<br>
><br>
> Unconfirmed transactions are, by definition, not recorded in blocks.=
=C2=A0 So if there is a transaction 0xFFFFFFF nSequence and fee 1000 satosh=
i, and another conflicting transaction 0xFFFFFFF nSequence and fee 10000000=
0 satoshi, miners can include the latter one even if the first one came to =
their knowledge first, regardless nSequence.<br>
><br>
> Thus, in the end "full replace-by-fee", where nSequence is I=
GNORED for purposes of replace-by-fee, is expected to become the norm, and =
we should really be designing our wallets and so on so that we only trust t=
ransactions that have confirmations.<br>
><br>
> The "nSequence=3D0xFFFFFFFF means opt-OUT of RBF" convention=
is only followed by fullnodes running standard bitcoind.=C2=A0 Nothing pre=
vents miners from running patched bitcoind that ignores this rule, and conn=
ecting with similar peers who also ignore this rule.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> ZmnSCPxj<br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.<br>
><br>
> =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Origin=
al Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90<=
br>
><br>
> On April 11, 2018 5:37 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr>linuxfo=
undation.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 05:10:43PM +0900, Karl-Johan Alm wrote:<br=
>
>><br>
>> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:52 PM, Peter Todd <a href=3D"mailto=
:pete@petertodd.org">pete@petertodd.org</a> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > > Or via full replace-by-fee, which appears to be used by =
a significant minority<br>
>> > ><br>
>> > > of miners:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I was of the impression that final transactions (sequence=3D0=
xffffffff)<br>
>> ><br>
>> > cannot be RBF'd.<br>
>><br>
>> My full-replace-by-fee tree ignores that. It also does preferentia=
l peering to<br>
>><br>
>> ensure it's well connected with likewise peers, and thus the w=
hole network.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<=
wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-=
-----------------------------<wbr>---------<br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"https://petertodd.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://petertodd.org</a> 'peter'[:-1]@<a href=3D"http://peter=
todd.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">petertodd.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-d=
ev@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitc=
oin-dev" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation=
.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
><br>
><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
--001a114b3aae1bb3f80569981169--
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