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Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:33:04 +0200
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To: Adam Tamir Shem-Tov <tshachaf@gmail.com>,
	Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Solving the Scalability Problem Part II - Adam
	Shem-Tov
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Regarding storage space, have you heard about pruning? Probably you should.

On 27 Aug 2017 12:27 am, "Adam Tamir Shem-Tov via bitcoin-dev" <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Thank You Christian for your response.
>
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D473.0 :  I dont see the relevan=
ce.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D52859.0 : This idea does not se=
em
> to talking about trimming the full node. Trimming the full node is the ke=
y,
> the full node is what keeps us secure from hackers. If it can be trimmed
> without losing security, that would be good, that is what I am proposing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D12376.0 : Same answer as 505.0.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D74559.15 : I think his proposal
> is similar to mine, unfortunately for us his predictions were way off. He
> was trying to fix this problem while believing that in the year 2020 the
> blockchain would be 4GB!!! It is not his fault, his prediction was in 201=
1.
> But you can see, by his prediction, which was rational at the time, was w=
ay
> off. And it stresses my point, we need to fix this now. Too bad, no one
> took him seriously back then, when the block chain i was 1GB.
> *https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D56226.0
> <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D56226.0>*: Another guy with a
> valid point, who was first acknowledged and then apparently ignored.
> .
> To summarize, this problem was brought up about 6 years ago, when the
> blockchain was 1GB in size, Now it is about 140GB in size. I think it is
> about time we stop ignoring this problem, and realize something needs to
> change, or else the only full-nodes you will have will be with private
> multi-million dollar companies, because no private citizen will have the
> storage space to keep it. That would make bitcoin the worst decentralized
> or uncentralized system in history.
>
>
> On 27 August 2017 at 00:42, Christian Riley <criley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There have been a number of similar (identical?) proposals over the
>> years, some were discussed in these threads:
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D56226.0
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D505.0
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D473.0
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D52859.0
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D12376.0
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D74559.15
>>
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2017, at 5:01 PM, Adam Tamir Shem-Tov via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> <B>Solving the Scalability Problem Part II</B>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> <BR>
>> In the previous post I showed a way to minimize the blocks on the block
>> chain, to lower the amount of space it takes on the hard drive, without
>> losing any relevant information.
>> I added a note, saying that the transaction chain needs to be rewritten,
>> but I did not give much detail to it.<BR>
>> Here is how that would work:<BR>
>> <B>The Genesis Account:</B>
>> -----------------------------------------<BR>
>> The problem with changing the transaction and block chain, is that it
>> cannot be done without knowing the private key of the sender of the of t=
he
>> funds for each account. There is however a way to circumvent that proble=
m.
>> That is to create a special account called the =E2=80=9CGenesis Account=
=E2=80=9D, this
>> account=E2=80=99s Private Key and Public Key will be available to everyo=
ne.<BR>
>> But this account will not be able to send or receive any funds in a
>> normal block, it will be blocked--blacklisted. So no one can intentional=
ly
>> use it. The only time this account will be used is in the pruning block,
>> a.k.a Exodus Block.<BR>
>> When creating the new pruned block chain and transaction chain, all the
>> funds that are now in accounts must be legitimate, and it would be
>> difficult to legitimize them unless they were sent from a legitimate
>> account, with a public key, and a private key which can be verified. Tha=
t
>> is where the Genesis account comes in. All funds in the Exodus Block wil=
l
>> show as though they originated and were sent from the Genesis Account us=
ing
>> its privatekey to generate each transaction.<BR>
>> The funds which are sent, must match exactly the funds existing in the
>> most updated ledger in block 1000 (the last block as stated in my previo=
us
>> post).<BR>
>> In this way the Exodus Block can be verified, and the Genesis Account
>> cannot give free money to anyway, because if someone tried to, it would
>> fail verification.<BR>
>>
>> <BR>
>> Now the next problem is that the number of Bitcoins keeps expanding and
>> so the funds in the Genesis Account need to expand as well. That can be
>> done by showing as though this account is the account which is mining th=
e
>> coins, and it will be the only account in the Exodus Block which =E2=80=
=9Cmines=E2=80=9D
>> the coins, and receives the mining bonus. In the Exodus Block all coins
>> mined by the real miners will show as though they were mined by Genesis =
and
>> sent to the miners through a regular transaction.
>>
>> <BR>
>>
>> Adam Shem-Tov
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

--94eb2c03eb0eaa17ae0557ba8a16
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Regarding storage space, have you heard about pruning? Pr=
obably you should.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On 27 Aug 2017 12:27 am, &quot;Adam Tamir Shem-Tov via bitcoin-dev&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-d=
ev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thank You Christian for your =
response.<br><br><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D473.0=
" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_blank"><font co=
lor=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D473.0</font>=
</a> :=C2=A0 I dont see the relevance.<br><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.or=
g/index.php?topic=3D52859.0" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"=
 target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<w=
br>php?topic=3D52859.0</font></a> : This idea does not seem to talking abou=
t trimming the full node. Trimming the full node is the key, the full node =
is what keeps us secure from hackers. If it can be trimmed without losing s=
ecurity, that would be good, that is what I am proposing.<br><a href=3D"htt=
ps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D12376.0" style=3D"background-color:r=
gba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitco=
intalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D12376.0</font></a> : Same answer as 505.0=
. <br><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D74559.15" style=
=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"=
#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D74559.15</font></a>=
 : I think his proposal is similar to mine, unfortunately for us his predic=
tions were way off. He was trying to fix this problem while believing that =
in the year 2020 the blockchain would be 4GB!!! It is not his fault, his pr=
ediction was in 2011. But you can see, by his prediction, which was rationa=
l at the time, was way off. And it stresses my point, we need to fix this n=
ow. Too bad, no one took him seriously back then, when the block chain i wa=
s 1GB.<br><u><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D56226.0" =
target=3D"_blank">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D56226.0</a=
></u>: Another guy with a valid point, who was first acknowledged and then =
apparently ignored.<br>.<br></div>To summarize, this problem was brought up=
 about 6 years ago, when the blockchain was 1GB in size, Now it is about 14=
0GB in size. I think it is about time we stop ignoring this problem, and re=
alize something needs to change, or else the only full-nodes you will have =
will be with private multi-million dollar companies, because no private cit=
izen will have the storage space to keep it. That would make bitcoin the wo=
rst decentralized or uncentralized system in history.<br><div><div><br></di=
v></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
27 August 2017 at 00:42, Christian Riley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:criley@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">criley@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><div><span s=
tyle=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">There have been a number of s=
imilar (identical?) proposals over the years, some were discussed in these =
threads:</span></div><div><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topi=
c=3D56226.0" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_blan=
k"><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D5=
6226.0</font></a></div><div><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to=
pic=3D505.0" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_blan=
k"><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D5=
05.0</font></a></div><div><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topi=
c=3D473.0" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_blank"=
><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D473=
.0</font></a></div><div><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=
=3D52859.0" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_blank=
"><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D52=
859.0</font></a></div><div><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?top=
ic=3D12376.0" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=3D=
12376.0</font></a></div><div><div id=3D"m_8452035740195603851m_498502935913=
5226761AppleMailSignature"><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?top=
ic=3D74559.15" style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><font color=3D"#000000">https://bitcointalk.org/index.<wbr>php?topic=
=3D74559.15</font></a></div></div><br></div><div><div class=3D"m_8452035740=
195603851h5"><div><br>On Aug 26, 2017, at 5:01 PM, Adam Tamir Shem-Tov via =
bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda<wbr>tion.org</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">


=09
=09
=09
=09


<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">&lt;B&gt;Solving the
Scalability Problem Part
II&lt;/B&gt;<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
---<br>
&lt;BR&gt;<br>
In
the previous post I showed a way to minimize the blocks on the block
chain, to lower the amount of space it takes on the hard drive,
without losing any relevant information.<br>
I added a note, saying
that the transaction chain needs to be rewritten, but I did not give
much detail to it.&lt;BR&gt;<br>
Here is how that would
work:&lt;BR&gt;<br>
&lt;B&gt;The Genesis
Account:&lt;/B&gt;<br>
------------------------------<wbr>-----------&lt;BR&gt;<br>
The
problem with changing the transaction and block chain, is that it
cannot be done without knowing the private key of the sender of the
of the funds for each account. There is however a way to circumvent
that problem. That is to create a special account called the =E2=80=9CGenes=
is
Account=E2=80=9D, this account=E2=80=99s Private Key and Public Key will be
available to everyone.&lt;BR&gt;<br>
But this account will not be
able to send or receive any funds in a normal block, it will be
blocked--blacklisted. So no one can intentionally use it. The only
time this account will be used is in the pruning block, a.k.a Exodus
Block.&lt;BR&gt;<br>
When creating the new pruned block chain and
transaction chain, all the funds that are now in accounts must be
legitimate, and it would be difficult to legitimize them unless they
were sent from a legitimate account, with a public key, and a private
key which can be verified. That is where the Genesis account comes
in. All funds in the Exodus Block will show as though they originated
and were sent from the Genesis Account using its privatekey to
generate each transaction.&lt;BR&gt;<br>
The funds which are sent,
must match exactly the funds existing in the most updated ledger in
block 1000 (the last block as stated in my previous post).&lt;BR&gt;<br>
In
this way the Exodus Block can be verified, and the Genesis Account
cannot give free money to anyway, because if someone tried to, it
would fail verification.&lt;BR&gt;</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">&lt;BR&gt;<br>
Now
the next problem is that the number of Bitcoins keeps expanding and
so the funds in the Genesis Account need to expand as well. That can
be done by showing as though this account is the account which is
mining the coins, and it will be the only account in the Exodus Block
which =E2=80=9Cmines=E2=80=9D the coins, and receives the mining bonus. In =
the
Exodus Block all coins mined by the real miners will show as though
they were mined by Genesis and sent to the miners through a regular
transaction.</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">&lt;BR&gt;</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">Adam Shem-Tov</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%"><br>

</p>

</div>
</div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>_______=
_______________________<wbr>_________________</span><br><span>bitcoin-dev m=
ailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda=
tion.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><=
/span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listin=
fo/bitcoin-dev" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></bl=
ockquote></div><br></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div></div>

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