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From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 18:37:07 +0200
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+Ya_W9zVXKbHr4eZWE=4tfCXvtZjvWRSmTjQTwyiKWRg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ali Sherief <ali@notatether.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Mempool spam] Should we as developers reject
 non-standard Taproot transactions from full nodes?
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po 8. 5. 2023 v 13:55 odes=C3=ADlatel Ali Sherief via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> napsal:

> Hi guys,
>
> I think everyone on this list knows what has happened to the Bitcoin
> mempool during the past 96 hours. Due to side projects such as BRC-20
> having such a high volume, real bitcoin transactions are being priced out
> and that is what is causing the massive congestion that has arguable not
> been seen since December 2017. I do not count the March 2021 congestion
> because that was only with 1-5sat/vbyte.
>
> Such justifiably worthless ("worthless" is not even my word - that's how
> its creator described them[1]) tokens threaten the smooth and normal use =
of
> the Bitcoin network as a peer-to-pear digital currency, as it was intende=
d
> to be used as.
>
> If the volume does not die down over the next few weeks, should we take a=
n
> action? The bitcoin network is a triumvirate of developers, miners, and
> users. Considering that miners are largely the entities at fault for
> allowing the system to be abused like this, the harmony of Bitcoin
> transactions is being disrupted right now. Although this community has a
> strong history of not putting its fingers into pies unless absolutely
> necessary - an example being during the block size wars and Segwit - shou=
ld
> similar action be taken now, in the form of i) BIPs and/or ii) commits in=
to
> the Bitcoin Core codebase, to curtail the loophole in BIP 342 (which
> defines the validation rules for Taproot scripts) which has allowed these
> unintended consequences?
>
> An alternative would be to enforce this "censorship" at the node level an=
d
> introduce a run-time option to instantly prune all non-standard Taproot
> transactions. This will be easier to implement, but won't hit the road
> until minimum next release.
>
> I know that some people will have their criticisms about this,
> absolutists/libertarians/maximum-freedom advocates, which is fine, but we
> need to find a solution for this that fits everyone's common ground. We
> indirectly allowed this to happen, which previously wasn't possible befor=
e.
> So we also have a responsibility to do something to ensure that this kind
> of congestion can never happen again using Taproot.
>

This is a nuanced and sensitive topic that has been discussed previously,
as far back as 2010, in a conversation between Gavin and Satoshi:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D195.msg1617#msg1617

Gavin: That's a cool feature until it gets popular and somebody decides it
would be fun to flood the payment network with millions of transactions to
transfer the latest Lady Gaga video to all their friends...
Satoshi: That's one of the reasons for transaction fees.  There are other
things we can do if necessary.

High fees could be viewed as disruptive to the network, but less disruptive
than regular large reorgs, or a network split.

It might be beneficial to brainstorm the "other things we can do if
necessary".

A simple observation is that increasing the block size could make it more
challenging to spam, though it may come at the expense of some
decentralization.


> -Ali
>
> ---
>
> [1]:
> https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/05/05/pump-the-brcs-the-=
promise-and-peril-of-bitcoin-backed-tokens/
> <https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/05/05/pump-the-brcs-the=
-promise-and-peril-of-bitcoin-backed-tokens/?outputType=3Damp>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">po 8. 5. 2023 v=C2=A013:55 odes=C3=AD=
latel Ali Sherief via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; napsal:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Hi guys,</div><div style=3D"font-=
family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">I think everyone on this list knows what =
has happened to the Bitcoin mempool during the past 96 hours. Due to side p=
rojects such as BRC-20 having such a high volume, real bitcoin transactions=
 are being priced out and that is what is causing the massive congestion th=
at has arguable not been seen since December 2017. I do not count the March=
 2021 congestion because that was only with 1-5sat/vbyte.</div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Such justifiably worthless (&quo=
t;worthless&quot; is not even my word - that&#39;s how its creator describe=
d them[1]) tokens threaten the smooth and normal use of the Bitcoin network=
 as a peer-to-pear digital currency, as it was intended to be used as.</div=
><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div =
style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">If the volume does no=
t die down over the next few weeks, should we take an action? The bitcoin n=
etwork is a triumvirate of developers, miners, and users. Considering that =
miners are largely the entities at fault for allowing the system to be abus=
ed like this, the harmony of Bitcoin transactions is being disrupted right =
now. Although this community has a strong history of not putting its finger=
s into pies unless absolutely necessary - an example being during the block=
 size wars and Segwit - should similar action be taken now, in the form of =
i) BIPs and/or ii) commits into the Bitcoin Core codebase, to curtail the l=
oophole in BIP 342 (which defines the validation rules for Taproot scripts)=
 which has allowed these unintended consequences?</div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:=
Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">An alternative would be to enforce this &q=
uot;censorship&quot; at the node level and introduce a run-time option to i=
nstantly prune all non-standard Taproot transactions. This will be easier t=
o implement, but won&#39;t hit the road until minimum next release.</div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div sty=
le=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">I know that some people =
will have their criticisms about this, absolutists/libertarians/maximum-fre=
edom advocates, which is fine, but we need to find a solution for this that=
 fits everyone&#39;s common ground. We indirectly allowed this to happen, w=
hich previously wasn&#39;t possible before. So we also have a responsibilit=
y to do something to ensure that this kind of congestion can never happen a=
gain using Taproot.</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">This is a nuanced and sensitive topic that has been discussed=20
previously, as far back as 2010, in a conversation between Gavin and=20
Satoshi: <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D195.msg1617#ms=
g1617">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D195.msg1617#msg1617</a></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>Gavin: That&#39;s a cool feature until it=
 gets popular and somebody decides it would be fun to flood the payment net=
work with millions of transactions to transfer the latest Lady Gaga video t=
o all their friends...<br>Satoshi: That&#39;s one of the reasons for transa=
ction fees.=C2=A0 There are other things we can do if necessary.<div><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">High fees could be viewed as disruptive to t=
he network, but less disruptive than regular large reorgs, or a network spl=
it.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">It might be beneficial to brainstorm the &quot;other things we can =
do if necessary&quot;.</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div>A sim=
ple observation is that increasing the block size could make it=20
more challenging to spam, though it may come at the expense of some=20
decentralization.</div><div><br> </div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-ser=
if;font-size:14px">-Ali</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size=
:14px">---</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">[1]:=
=C2=A0<span><a rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener" href=3D"https://www.coi=
ndesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/05/05/pump-the-brcs-the-promise-and-peril=
-of-bitcoin-backed-tokens/?outputType=3Damp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.=
coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/05/05/pump-the-brcs-the-promise-and-pe=
ril-of-bitcoin-backed-tokens/</a></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><div>
    </div>
   =20
            <div>
       =20
            </div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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