1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
|
Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <pete@petertodd.org>) id 1SNSrr-0007oC-4p
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:52:35 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org
designates 62.13.149.84 as permitted sender)
client-ip=62.13.149.84; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org;
helo=outmail149084.authsmtp.net;
Received: from outmail149084.authsmtp.net ([62.13.149.84])
by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
id 1SNSrm-00055G-SS for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:52:35 +0000
Received: from mail-c194.authsmtp.com (mail-c194.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.121])
by punt8.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/Kp) with ESMTP id
q3QHU6e7042269; Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:30:06 +0100 (BST)
Received: from savin.lan (206-248-185-238.dsl.teksavvy.com [206.248.185.238])
(authenticated bits=128)
by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q3QHU14g076905
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:30:03 +0100 (BST)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:30:00 -0400
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Peter Vessenes <peter@coinlab.com>
Message-ID: <20120426173000.GB16099@savin.lan>
References: <20120426154928.GA13737@savin.lan>
<CAMGNxUs3eDaYHpg=ZqXQPC5+kQXZwhqUngH2t2OFaTa4x7vPcw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAMGNxUs3eDaYHpg=ZqXQPC5+kQXZwhqUngH2t2OFaTa4x7vPcw@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14)
X-Server-Quench: 75b68d3c-8fc5-11e1-80b9-0022640b883e
X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at:
http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse
X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR
aAdMdAQUGUUGAgsB AmQbWlxeU117WWc7 aQpXcwdZalRPVwB0
UktBXVdaExppT10C Z2Z7Ux0ldwJAcX51 K0diXXhbEkN/J0B1
Fk0HCGVQNmJ9aWFK UV1Qd1FdbQNKfB1D blAtXHsONCtlM3Bw
LCUyIzs2PDMaJClL TwUKNVcfR1o+VgIm WgseEDlnHEEIQTky Mx0rMTYA
X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1015:706
X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255)
X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own
anti-virus system.
X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
X-Headers-End: 1SNSrm-00055G-SS
Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Trusted identities
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:52:35 -0000
--1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:11:51AM -0700, Peter Vessenes wrote:
> These are interesting thoughts, karma for bitcoins essentially.
>=20
> I would like CoinLab to publish a 'cost of subverting 1-n transactions wi=
th
> 90% probability' metric soon, and I think it would help everyone to
> understand what that number is.
There's gotta be a lot of subtlies there. For instance, if I just want
to double-spend, the easiest approach would be to first buy a whole
bunch of VPS's, each with different /16's for their IP address to defeat
that anti-sybil measure. Then figure out what is the set of nodes
closest to my target - easier for an active target that makes a lot of
transactions.
Then it's just a matter of giving them my transaction, and immediately
flooding the network faster with my nodes than their single node. It's
not block-replacement, but it would be effective against people who
accept 0-confirmations. (although as Gavin has pointed out elsewhere, in
the future miners may be very happy to replace transactions for more
fees in that kind of circumstance)
Of course, this whole trusted identities business could be equally used
for the bitcoin flood network as a whole to prevent sybil's, and perhaps
even get guarantees of behavior like "My node respects nLockTime and
won't ignore it for a higher-fee transaction replacement"
> When we started out, you probably needed to wait 5 blocks for $10 or $20 =
of
> bitcoin value transfer.
>=20
> Now, I'd happily accept a $1k transaction with 1 confirmation.
Yup, especially when a human is in the loop.
> More difficulty shortens the safe time we can transact large volumes in,
> which is good for the network.
>=20
> I'm not sure of the current implementation of replacement transactions, c=
an
> anyone on the core team speak to this? Can I replace transactions, or is
> that part of the spec unimplemented or deprecated right now?
My understanding is it's completely disabled.
--=20
http://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature
Content-Disposition: inline
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPmYYTAAoJEH+rEUJn5PoEAsYH/RnMabHBU/GN0+hJnbKLwQsZ
niWjB/G9e2VXTxHNhIMkuXiohp+FolZY/ez53jDDIFFBUcAUVc48QqhmtFbPCr1m
IMIk9Yn+MWdQoU8SgTCM++eNRi0PLPQKSf3lr2ZHnXK09xEUGvC7tW1WJA8DLZtz
AvhfDmnu9210iEDm97MIIYkJHqdIbuI0qZSOzm0FW9Nu3MKtKTysYwgxP4bZ/0HW
tTSPABFc0Aa8d5gEOgfPzOddbg3rjLBW8VJ/acSqed/3Col04bxxPY1LTqpGkJ38
S+tczkoHE0AZdTIW1Bvh1NvYFHF48YGJho6d5zRXsUOuhrK/+OHc1EKQcAqFM54=
=QN9x
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG--
|
