1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
543
544
545
546
547
548
549
550
551
552
553
554
555
556
557
558
559
560
561
562
563
564
565
566
567
568
569
570
571
572
573
574
575
576
577
578
579
580
581
582
583
584
585
586
587
588
589
590
591
592
593
594
595
596
597
598
599
600
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613
614
615
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625
626
627
628
629
630
631
632
633
634
635
636
637
638
639
640
641
642
643
644
645
646
647
648
649
650
651
652
653
654
655
656
657
658
659
660
661
662
663
664
665
666
667
668
669
670
671
672
673
674
675
676
677
678
679
680
681
682
683
684
685
686
687
688
689
690
691
692
693
694
695
696
697
698
699
700
701
702
703
704
705
706
707
708
709
710
711
712
713
714
715
716
717
718
719
720
721
722
723
724
725
726
727
728
729
730
731
732
733
734
735
736
737
738
739
740
741
742
743
744
745
746
747
748
749
750
751
752
753
754
755
756
757
758
759
760
761
762
763
764
765
766
767
768
769
770
771
772
773
774
775
776
777
778
779
780
781
782
783
784
785
786
787
788
789
790
791
792
793
794
795
796
797
798
799
800
801
802
803
804
|
Return-Path: <ponymontana@disroot.org>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC30C0032
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 7 Nov 2023 22:20:13 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0140E403E7
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 7 Nov 2023 22:20:13 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 0140E403E7
Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=disroot.org header.i=@disroot.org
header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=mail header.b=EkD3RzK+
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id QH8PO97GZ1bQ
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 7 Nov 2023 22:20:09 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: delayed 549 seconds by postgrey-1.37 at util1.osuosl.org;
Tue, 07 Nov 2023 22:20:08 UTC
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org E72F740182
Received: from layka.disroot.org (layka.disroot.org [178.21.23.139])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E72F740182
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 7 Nov 2023 22:20:08 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE6841930;
Tue, 7 Nov 2023 23:10:56 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: SPAM Filter at disroot.org
Received: from layka.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id SHF61C-fUHP6; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 23:10:54 +0100 (CET)
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 23:10:39 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail;
t=1699395053; bh=ijjeG94XTvq7ORABZGwXnsgFOdBcOAMjX05SAnRk6hg=;
h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References;
b=EkD3RzK+3qkDzsczahxtJbLdiCgFpNl7UrRK4sagMi30CphWB/IsKtw8b27N5zx64
U0Mv4yyWn6QlUcq1sIERq61WHj0TyzicHpyikQQpkiVGNNjMKKIeXjZuu+MUxyod66
U1LhZBrkxUnaBeZ66F5ku7JE7Vyq7KlCWX3bF3EsUTphRw+QMk9sYaN57hGtQBJsUv
UcSNnPJxRb+1cStC6bcSV3AMHtczferXsiUDB0Mk7qnvSCCHJoseIJch2SvD7RGfi+
q0eKCOrB1iPeVv4vRIY+KSCiso/7giINK37GyquGrJFAdm1qNvFAx+oxNEGZ3VvDaq
RlNr3DgfszDLQ==
From: ponymontana <ponymontana@disroot.org>
To: Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
In-Reply-To: <CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0AtpuaFGVB=zhdwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0AtpuaFGVB=zhdwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E4FD3276-A3EE-4032-9418-156C5B6D6EA8@disroot.org>
Autocrypt: addr=ponymontana@disroot.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="----8UJQP0482RZDPA3TR4L5C2I3AN4Q9E";
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 22:46:30 +0000
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Future of the bitcoin-dev mailing list
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 22:20:13 -0000
------8UJQP0482RZDPA3TR4L5C2I3AN4Q9E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=----BQDK1ASZAIRVOA5XYH4910P5V8G5X9
------BQDK1ASZAIRVOA5XYH4910P5V8G5X9
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,=20
This impellent deadline could be took with enthusiasm from people that are=
anxious to experiment with new protocols and platforms that can replicate =
mailing lists and offer, in theory, better solutions=2E
I think this enthusiasm is totally positive and I encourage them to work o=
n that ideas=2E
But I also think that this mailing list fills a very particoular need of c=
ommunication in the bitcoin space=2E=20
The stream of ideas hosted here is strictly dependant on the form it assum=
es when formalized in the peculiar format of mails-threads=2E=20
Migrating these technical discussions to a forum or a pseudo-group-chat wo=
uldn't replace this mailing list, even if the moderators behind and most of=
the participants would be the same=2E
It would eventually be a new and unstable solution, with no-guarantee to p=
reserve the same goals reached here=2E
Today exist a lot of places where people can exchange ideas about bitcoin;
if new platforms will emerge as better suited to hosts BIP drafts and tech=
nical discussions, people will move organically through them=2E
In my opinion, "finding a new platform" is only marginally correlated to o=
ur main topic here=2E
If our problem is helping decide the "future of bitcoin-dev mailing list",=
the only two solutions to me appear to tautologically be:
1) Give continuity to bitcoin-dev mailing list with a ready drop-in replac=
ement=2E=20
2) Don't give continuity the bitcoin-dev mailing list=2E
In the case 1) a solution could be find a new host for the mailing list an=
d work around the problems exposed=2E
In the case 2) is possible to do nothing OR to propose a new solution as a=
sort of "spiritual continuation" of bitcoin-dev mailing list, and eventual=
ly see if people will converge on it=2E
Understanding all the difficulty behind the management of the bitcoin-dev =
mailing list, I think it has worked very well for many years, and I hope it=
will work for the years to come=2E
I also want to say thanks to all the people behind this mailing list for a=
ll your work and effort=2E
---PM
Il 7 novembre 2023 16:37:22 CET, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev=
@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg> ha scritto:
>Hello,
>
>We would like to request community feedback and proposals on the future o=
f
>the mailing list=2E
>
>Our current mailing list host, Linux Foundation, has indicated for years
>that they have wanted to stop hosting mailing lists, which would mean the
>bitcoin-dev mailing list would need to move somewhere else=2E We temporar=
ily
>avoided that, but recently LF has informed a moderator that they will cea=
se
>hosting any mailing lists later this year=2E
>
>In this email, we will go over some of the history, options, and invite
>discussion ahead of the cutoff=2E We have some ideas but want to solicit
>feedback and proposals=2E
>
>Background
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>The bitcoin-dev mailing list was originally hosted on Sourceforge=2Enet=
=2E The
>bitcoin development mailing list has been a source of proposals, analysis=
,
>and developer discussion for many years in the bitcoin community, with ma=
ny
>thousands of participants=2E Later, the mailing list was migrated to the
>Linux Foundation, and after that OSUOSL began to help=2E
>
>Linux Foundation first asked us to move the mailing list in 2017=2E They
>internally attempted to migrate all LF mailing lists from mailman2 to
>mailman3, but ultimately gave up=2E There were reports of scalability iss=
ues
>with mailman3 for large email communities=2E Ours definitely qualifies as=
=2E=2E
>large=2E
>
>2019 migration plan: LF was to turn off mailman and all lists would migra=
te
>to the paid service provider groups=2Eio=2E Back then we were given accou=
nts to
>try the groups=2Eio interface and administration features=2E Apparently w=
e were
>not the only dev community who resisted change=2E To our surprise LF gave=
us
>several years of reprieve by instead handing the subdomain and server-sid=
e
>data to the non-profit OSUOSL lab who instead operated mailman2 for the
>past ~4 years=2E
>
>OSUOSL has for decades been well known for providing server infrastructur=
e
>for Linux and Open Source development so they were a good fit=2E This how=
ever
>became an added maintenance burden for the small non-profit with limited
>resources=2E Several members of the Bitcoin dev community contributed fun=
ding
>to the lab in support of their Open Source development infrastructure
>goals=2E But throwing money at the problem isn=E2=80=99t going to fix the=
ongoing
>maintenance burden created by antiquated limitations of mailman2=2E
>
>Permalinks
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>Linux Foundation has either offered or agreed to maintain archive
>permalinks so that content of historic importance is not lost=2E Fortunat=
ely
>for us while lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg mailman will go down, they hav=
e
>agreed the read-only pipermail archives will remain online=2E So all old =
URLs
>will continue to remain valid=2E However, the moderators strongly advise =
that
>the community supplements with public-inbox instances to have canonical
>archive urls that are separate from any particular email software host=2E
>
>Public-Inbox
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>https://public-inbox=2Eorg/README=2Ehtml
>
>=E2=80=9CPublic Inbox=E2=80=9D decentralized archiving - no matter what m=
ailing list server
>solution is used, anyone can use git to maintain their own mailing list
>archive and make it available to read on the web=2E
>
>Public Inbox is a tool that you can run yourself=2E You can transform you=
r
>mbox file and it makes it browsable and viewable online=2E It commits eve=
ry
>post to a git repository=2E It's kind of like a decentralized mail archiv=
ing
>tool=2E Anyone can publish the mail archive to any web server they wish=
=2E
>
>We should try to have one or more canonical archives that are served usin=
g
>public-inbox=2E But it doesn't matter if these are lost because anyone el=
se
>can archive the mailing list in the same way and re-publish the archives=
=2E
>
>These git commits can also be stamped using opentimestamps, inserting the=
ir
>hashes into the bitcoin blockchain=2E
>
>LKML mailing list readers often use public-inbox's web interface, and the=
y
>use the reply-to headers to populate their mail client and reply to threa=
ds
>of interest=2E This allows their reply to be properly threaded even if th=
ey
>were not a previous subscriber to that mailing list to receive the header=
s=2E
>
>public-inbox makes it so that it doesn't really matter where the list is
>hosted, as pertaining to reading the mailing list=2E There is still a
>disruption if the mailing list goes away, but the archives live on and th=
en
>people can post elsewhere=2E The archive gets disconnected from the maili=
ng
>list host in terms of posting=2E We could have a few canonical URLs for t=
he
>hosts, separate from the mailing list server=2E
>
>mailman problems
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>Over the years we have identified a number of problems with mailman2
>especially as it pertains to content moderation=2E There are presently a
>handful of different moderators, but mailman2 only has a single password
>for logging into the email management interface=2E There are no moderator
>audit logs to see which user (there is no concept of different users) act=
ed
>on an email=2E There is no way to mark an email as being investigated by =
one
>or more of the moderators=2E Sometimes, while investigating the veracity =
of
>an email, another moderator would come in and approve a suspect email by
>accident=2E
>
>Anti spam has been an issue for the moderators=2E It's relentless=2E With=
out
>access to the underlying server, it has been difficult to fight spam=2E T=
here
>is some support for filters in mailman2 but it's not great=2E
>
>100% active moderation and approval of every email is unsustainable for
>volunteer moderators=2E A system that requires moderation is a heavy burd=
en
>on the moderators and it slows down overall communication and productivit=
y=2E
>There's lots of problems with this=2E Also, moderators can be blamed when
>they are merely slow while they are not actually censoring=2E
>
>Rejection emails can optionally be sent to
>bitcoin-dev-moderation@lists=2Eozlabs=2Eorg but this is an option that a
>moderator has to remember to type in each time=2E
>
>Not to mention numerous bugs and vulnerabilities that have accumulated ov=
er
>the years for relatively unmaintained software=2E (Not disclosed here)
>
>Requirements and considerations
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>Looking towards the future, there are a number of properties that seem to
>be important for the bitcoin-dev mailing list community=2E First, it is
>important that backups of the entire archive should be easy for the publi=
c
>to copy or verify so that the system can be brought up elsewhere if
>necessary=2E
>
>Second, there seems to be demand for both an email threading interface
>(using mailing list software) as well as web-accessible interfaces (such =
as
>forum software)=2E There seems to be very few options that cater to both
>email and web=2E Often, in forum software, email support is limited to em=
ail
>notifications and there is limited if any support for email user
>participation=2E
>
>Third, there should be better support for moderator tools and management =
of
>the mailing list=2E See above for complaints about problems with the mail=
man2
>system=2E
>
>Burdens of running your own mailing list and email server
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>If you have never operated your own MTA you have no idea how difficult it
>is to keep secure and functional in the face of numerous challenges to
>deliverability=2E Anti-spam filtering is essential to prevent forwarding
>spam=2E The moment you forward even a single spam message you run the ris=
k of
>the server IP address being added to blacklists=2E
>
>The problem of spam filtering is so bad that most IP addresses are presum=
ed
>guilty even if they have no prior spam history, such as if their network =
or
>subnetwork had spam issues in the past=2E
>
>Even if you put unlimited time into managing your own email server, other
>people may not accept your email=2E Or you make one mistake, and then you=
get
>into permanent blacklists and it's hard to remove=2E The spam problem is =
so
>bad that most IPs are automatically on a guilty-until-proven-innocent
>blacklist=2E
>
>Often there is nothing you can do to get server IP addresses removed from
>spam blacklists or from "bad reputation" lists=2E
>
>Ironically, hashcash-style proof-of-work stamps to prevent spam are an
>appealing solution but not widely used in this community=2E Or anywhere=
=2E
>
>Infinite rejection or forwarding loops happen=2E They often need to be
>detected through vigilance and require manual sysadmin intervention to
>solve=2E
>
>Bitcoin's dev lists being hosted alongside other Open Source projects was
>previously protective=2E If that mailing list server became blacklisted t=
here
>were a lot of other people who would notice and complain=2E If we run a
>Bitcoin-specific mail server we are on our own=2E 100% of the administrat=
ive
>burden falls upon our own people=2E There is also nothing we can do if so=
me
>unknown admin decides they don't like us=2E
>
>Options
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>Web forums are an interesting option, but often don't have good email use=
r
>integration=2E At most you can usually hope for email notifications and a=
n
>ability to reply by email=2E It changes the model of the community from p=
ush
>(email) to pull (logging into a forum to read)=2E RSS feeds can help a li=
ttle
>bit=2E
>
>Many other projects have moved from mailing lists to forums (eg
>https://discuss=2Epython=2Eorg/ =E2=80=93 see https://lwn=2Enet/Articles/=
901744/ ; or
>https://ethresear=2Ech/), which seem easier to maintain and moderate, and=
can
>have lots of advanced features beyond plaintext, maybe-threading and
>maybe-HTML-markup=2E
>
>Who would host the forum? Would there be agreement around which forum
>software to use or which forum host? What about bitcointalk=2Eorg or
>delvingbitcoin=2Eorg? There are many options available=2E Maybe what we
>actually want isn=E2=80=99t so much a discussion forum, as an 'arxiv of o=
ur own'
>where anons can post BIP drafts and the like?
>
>Given the problems with mailman2, and the decline of email communities in
>general, it seems that moving to mailman3 would not be a viable long-term
>option=2E This leaves us with Google Groups or groups=2Eio as two remaini=
ng
>options=2E
>
>groups=2Eio is an interesting option: they are a paid service that implem=
ents
>email communities along with online web forum support=2E However, their
>public changelog indicates it has been a few years since their last publi=
c
>change=2E They might be a smaller company and it is unclear how long they
>will be around or if this would be the right fit for hosting sometimes
>contentious bitcoin development discussions=2E=2E=2E
>
>Google Groups is another interesting option, and comes with different
>tradeoffs=2E It's the lowest effort to maintain option, and has both an e=
mail
>interface and web forum interface=2E Users can choose which mode they wan=
t to
>interact with=2E
>
>For the Google Groups web interface, you can use it with a non-gmail
>account, but you must create a Google Account which is free to do=2E it d=
oes
>not require any personal information to do so=2E This also allows you to =
add
>2FA=2E Non-gmail non-google users are able to subscribe and post email fr=
om
>their non-gmail non-google email accounts=2E Tor seems to work for the we=
b
>interface=2E
>
>Will Google shut it down, will they cut us off, will they shut down
>non-google users? The same problem exists with other third-party hosts=2E
>
>The moderation capabilities for Google Groups and groups=2Eio seem to be
>comparable=2E It seems more likely that Google Groups will be able to han=
dle
>email delivery issues far better than a small resource-constrained
>operation like groups=2Eio=2E ((During feedback for this draft, luke-jr
>indicates that Google Workspaces has been known to use blacklisted IPs fo=
r
>business email!))
>
>On the other hand, groups=2Eio is a paid service and you get what you pay
>for=2E=2E=2E hopefully?
>
>Finally, another option is to do literally nothing=2E It's less work over=
all=2E
>Users can switch to forums or other websites, or private one-on-one
>communication=2E It would remove a point of semi-centralization from the
>bitcoin ecosystem=2E It would hasten ossification, but on the other hand =
it
>would hasten ossification and this could be a negative too=2E Moderators
>would be less of a target=2E
>
>Unfortunately, by doing nothing, there would be no more widely used group
>email communication system between bitcoin developers=2E Developers becom=
e
>less coordinated, mayhem and chaos as people go to different communicatio=
n
>platforms, a divided community is more vulnerable, etc=2E BIP1 and BIP2 w=
ould
>need to be revised for other venues=2E
>
>The main categories of what to move to are: web forums, mailing lists, an=
d
>hybrids of those two options=2E Most everything is either self-hosted or =
you
>pay someone else to host it=2E It's kind of the same problem though=2E It
>largely depends on how good is the software and unfortunately running you=
r
>own MTA that forwards mail is not a good option=2E
>
>Going forward
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>We'd like to invite feedback and proposals from the community, and see wh=
at
>options are available=2E One potential option is a migration to Google
>Groups, but we're open to ideas at this point=2E We apologize for any
>inconvenience this disruption has caused=2E
>
>
>Bitcoin-dev mailing list moderation team
>
>Bryan Bishop
>Ruben Somsen
>Warren Togami
>various others=2E
>
>--=20
>- Bryan
>https://twitter=2Ecom/kanzure
------BQDK1ASZAIRVOA5XYH4910P5V8G5X9
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, <br><br>This impellent deadl=
ine could be took with enthusiasm from people that are anxious to experimen=
t with new protocols and platforms that can replicate mailing lists and off=
er, in theory, better solutions=2E<br>I think this enthusiasm is totally po=
sitive and I encourage them to work on that ideas=2E<br><br>But I also thin=
k that this mailing list fills a very particoular need of communication in =
the bitcoin space=2E <br>The stream of ideas hosted here is strictly depend=
ant on the form it assumes when formalized in the peculiar format of mails-=
threads=2E <br>Migrating these technical discussions to a forum or a pseudo=
-group-chat wouldn't replace this mailing list, even if the moderators behi=
nd and most of the participants would be the same=2E<br>It would eventually=
be a new and unstable solution, with no-guarantee to preserve the same goa=
ls reached here=2E<br><br>Today exist a lot of places where people can exch=
ange ideas about bitcoin;<br>if new platforms will emerge as better suited =
to hosts BIP drafts and technical discussions, people will move organically=
through them=2E<br>In my opinion, "finding a new platform" is only margina=
lly correlated to our main topic here=2E<br><br><br>If our problem is helpi=
ng decide the "future of bitcoin-dev mailing list", the only two solutions =
to me appear to tautologically be:<br><br>1) Give continuity to bitcoin-dev=
mailing list with a ready drop-in replacement=2E <br><br>2) Don't give con=
tinuity the bitcoin-dev mailing list=2E<br><br><br>In the case 1) a solutio=
n could be find a new host for the mailing list and work around the problem=
s exposed=2E<br><br>In the case 2) is possible to do nothing OR to propose =
a new solution as a sort of "spiritual continuation" of bitcoin-dev mailing=
list, and eventually see if people will converge on it=2E<br><br><br>Under=
standing all the difficulty behind the management of the bitcoin-dev mailin=
g list, I think it has worked very well for many years, and I hope it will =
work for the years to come=2E<br>I also want to say thanks to all the peopl=
e behind this mailing list for all your work and effort=2E<br><br><br>---PM=
</div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">Il 7 novembre 20=
23 16:37:22 CET, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists=2Elinux=
foundation=2Eorg> ha scritto:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204=
); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<br><br>We would like to request community fee=
dback and proposals on the future of the mailing list=2E<div><br><div>Our c=
urrent mailing list host, Linux Foundation, has indicated for years that th=
ey have wanted to stop hosting mailing lists, which would mean the bitcoin-=
dev mailing list would need to move somewhere else=2E We temporarily avoide=
d that, but recently LF has informed a moderator that they will cease hosti=
ng any mailing lists later this year=2E</div><div><br>In this email, we wil=
l go over some of the history, options, and invite discussion ahead of the =
cutoff=2E We have some ideas but want to solicit feedback and proposals=2E<=
br><br>Background<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>The bitcoin-dev =
mailing list was originally hosted on Sourceforge=2Enet=2E The bitcoin deve=
lopment mailing list has been a source of proposals, analysis, and develope=
r discussion for many years in the bitcoin community, with many thousands o=
f participants=2E Later, the mailing list was migrated to the Linux Foundat=
ion, and after that OSUOSL began to help=2E<br><br>Linux Foundation first a=
sked us to move the mailing list in 2017=2E They internally attempted to mi=
grate all LF mailing lists from mailman2 to mailman3, but ultimately gave u=
p=2E There were reports of scalability issues with mailman3 for large email=
communities=2E Ours definitely qualifies as=2E=2E large=2E<br><br>2019 mig=
ration plan: LF was to turn off mailman and all lists would migrate to the =
paid service provider <a href=3D"http://groups=2Eio">groups=2Eio</a>=2E Bac=
k then we were given accounts to try the <a href=3D"http://groups=2Eio">gro=
ups=2Eio</a> interface and administration features=2E Apparently we were no=
t the only dev community who resisted change=2E To our surprise LF gave us =
several years of reprieve by instead handing the subdomain and server-side =
data to the non-profit OSUOSL lab who instead operated mailman2 for the pas=
t ~4 years=2E<br><br>OSUOSL has for decades been well known for providing s=
erver infrastructure for Linux and Open Source development so they were a g=
ood fit=2E This however became an added maintenance burden for the small no=
n-profit with limited resources=2E Several members of the Bitcoin dev commu=
nity contributed funding to the lab in support of their Open Source develop=
ment infrastructure goals=2E But throwing money at the problem isn=E2=80=99=
t going to fix the ongoing maintenance burden created by antiquated limitat=
ions of mailman2=2E<br><br>Permalinks<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=
<br>Linux Foundation has either offered or agreed to maintain archive perma=
links so that content of historic importance is not lost=2E Fortunately for=
us while <a href=3D"http://lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg">lists=2Elinuxfou=
ndation=2Eorg</a> mailman will go down, they have agreed the read-only pipe=
rmail archives will remain online=2E So all old URLs will continue to remai=
n valid=2E However, the moderators strongly advise that the community suppl=
ements with public-inbox instances to have canonical archive urls that are =
separate from any particular email software host=2E<br><br>Public-Inbox<br>=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br><a href=3D"https://public-inbox=
=2Eorg/README=2Ehtml">https://public-inbox=2Eorg/README=2Ehtml</a><br><br>=
=E2=80=9CPublic Inbox=E2=80=9D decentralized archiving - no matter what mai=
ling list server solution is used, anyone can use git to maintain their own=
mailing list archive and make it available to read on the web=2E<br><br>Pu=
blic Inbox is a tool that you can run yourself=2E You can transform your mb=
ox file and it makes it browsable and viewable online=2E It commits every p=
ost to a git repository=2E It's kind of like a decentralized mail archiving=
tool=2E Anyone can publish the mail archive to any web server they wish=2E=
<br><br>We should try to have one or more canonical archives that are serve=
d using public-inbox=2E But it doesn't matter if these are lost because any=
one else can archive the mailing list in the same way and re-publish the ar=
chives=2E<br><br>These git commits can also be stamped using opentimestamps=
, inserting their hashes into the bitcoin blockchain=2E<br><br>LKML mailing=
list readers often use public-inbox's web interface, and they use the repl=
y-to headers to populate their mail client and reply to threads of interest=
=2E This allows their reply to be properly threaded even if they were not a=
previous subscriber to that mailing list to receive the headers=2E<br><br>=
public-inbox makes it so that it doesn't really matter where the list is ho=
sted, as pertaining to reading the mailing list=2E There is still a disrupt=
ion if the mailing list goes away, but the archives live on and then people=
can post elsewhere=2E The archive gets disconnected from the mailing list =
host in terms of posting=2E We could have a few canonical URLs for the host=
s, separate from the mailing list server=2E<br><br>mailman problems<br>=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>Over the years we have=
identified a number of problems with mailman2 especially as it pertains to=
content moderation=2E There are presently a handful of different moderator=
s, but mailman2 only has a single password for logging into the email manag=
ement interface=2E There are no moderator audit logs to see which user (the=
re is no concept of different users) acted on an email=2E There is no way t=
o mark an email as being investigated by one or more of the moderators=2E S=
ometimes, while investigating the veracity of an email, another moderator w=
ould come in and approve a suspect email by accident=2E<br><br>Anti spam ha=
s been an issue for the moderators=2E It's relentless=2E Without access to =
the underlying server, it has been difficult to fight spam=2E There is some=
support for filters in mailman2 but it's not great=2E<br><br>100% active m=
oderation and approval of every email is unsustainable for volunteer modera=
tors=2E A system that requires moderation is a heavy burden on the moderato=
rs and it slows down overall communication and productivity=2E There's lots=
of problems with this=2E Also, moderators can be blamed when they are mere=
ly slow while they are not actually censoring=2E<br><br>Rejection emails ca=
n optionally be sent to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev-moderation@lists=2Eoz=
labs=2Eorg">bitcoin-dev-moderation@lists=2Eozlabs=2Eorg</a> but this is an =
option that a moderator has to remember to type in each time=2E<br><br>Not =
to mention numerous bugs and vulnerabilities that have accumulated over the=
years for relatively unmaintained software=2E (Not disclosed here)<br><br>=
Requirements and considerations<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>Looking towar=
ds the future, there are a number of properties that seem to be important f=
or the bitcoin-dev mailing list community=2E First, it is important that ba=
ckups of the entire archive should be easy for the public to copy or verify=
so that the system can be brought up elsewhere if necessary=2E<br><br>Seco=
nd, there seems to be demand for both an email threading interface (using m=
ailing list software) as well as web-accessible interfaces (such as forum s=
oftware)=2E There seems to be very few options that cater to both email and=
web=2E Often, in forum software, email support is limited to email notific=
ations and there is limited if any support for email user participation=2E<=
br><br>Third, there should be better support for moderator tools and manage=
ment of the mailing list=2E See above for complaints about problems with th=
e mailman2 system=2E<br><br>Burdens of running your own mailing list and em=
ail server<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>If you have never operated your=
own MTA you have no idea how difficult it is to keep secure and functional=
in the face of numerous challenges to deliverability=2E Anti-spam filterin=
g is essential to prevent forwarding spam=2E The moment you forward even a =
single spam message you run the risk of the server IP address being added t=
o blacklists=2E<br><br>The problem of spam filtering is so bad that most IP=
addresses are presumed guilty even if they have no prior spam history, suc=
h as if their network or subnetwork had spam issues in the past=2E<br><br>E=
ven if you put unlimited time into managing your own email server, other pe=
ople may not accept your email=2E Or you make one mistake, and then you get=
into permanent blacklists and it's hard to remove=2E The spam problem is s=
o bad that most IPs are automatically on a guilty-until-proven-innocent bla=
cklist=2E<br><br>Often there is nothing you can do to get server IP address=
es removed from spam blacklists or from "bad reputation" lists=2E<br><br>Ir=
onically, hashcash-style proof-of-work stamps to prevent spam are an appeal=
ing solution but not widely used in this community=2E Or anywhere=2E<br><br=
>Infinite rejection or forwarding loops happen=2E They often need to be det=
ected through vigilance and require manual sysadmin intervention to solve=
=2E<br><br>Bitcoin's dev lists being hosted alongside other Open Source pro=
jects was previously protective=2E If that mailing list server became black=
listed there were a lot of other people who would notice and complain=2E If=
we run a Bitcoin-specific mail server we are on our own=2E 100% of the adm=
inistrative burden falls upon our own people=2E There is also nothing we ca=
n do if some unknown admin decides they don't like us=2E<br><br>Options<br>=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>Web forums are an interesting option, but ofte=
n don't have good email user integration=2E At most you can usually hope fo=
r email notifications and an ability to reply by email=2E It changes the mo=
del of the community from push (email) to pull (logging into a forum to rea=
d)=2E RSS feeds can help a little bit=2E<br><br>Many other projects have mo=
ved from mailing lists to forums (eg <a href=3D"https://discuss=2Epython=2E=
org/">https://discuss=2Epython=2Eorg/</a> =E2=80=93 see <a href=3D"https://=
lwn=2Enet/Articles/901744/">https://lwn=2Enet/Articles/901744/</a> ; or <a =
href=3D"https://ethresear=2Ech/">https://ethresear=2Ech/</a>), which seem e=
asier to maintain and moderate, and can have lots of advanced features beyo=
nd plaintext, maybe-threading and maybe-HTML-markup=2E<br><br>Who would hos=
t the forum? Would there be agreement around which forum software to use or=
which forum host? What about <a href=3D"http://bitcointalk=2Eorg">bitcoint=
alk=2Eorg</a> or <a href=3D"http://delvingbitcoin=2Eorg">delvingbitcoin=2Eo=
rg</a>? There are many options available=2E Maybe what we actually want isn=
=E2=80=99t so much a discussion forum, as an 'arxiv of our own' where anons=
can post BIP drafts and the like?<br><br>Given the problems with mailman2,=
and the decline of email communities in general, it seems that moving to m=
ailman3 would not be a viable long-term option=2E This leaves us with Googl=
e Groups or <a href=3D"http://groups=2Eio">groups=2Eio</a> as two remaining=
options=2E<br><br><a href=3D"http://groups=2Eio">groups=2Eio</a> is an int=
eresting option: they are a paid service that implements email communities =
along with online web forum support=2E However, their public changelog indi=
cates it has been a few years since their last public change=2E They might =
be a smaller company and it is unclear how long they will be around or if t=
his would be the right fit for hosting sometimes contentious bitcoin develo=
pment discussions=2E=2E=2E<br><br>Google Groups is another interesting opti=
on, and comes with different tradeoffs=2E It's the lowest effort to maintai=
n option, and has both an email interface and web forum interface=2E Users =
can choose which mode they want to interact with=2E<br><br>For the Google G=
roups web interface, you can use it with a non-gmail account, but you must =
create a Google Account which is free to do=2E it does not require any pers=
onal information to do so=2E This also allows you to add 2FA=2E Non-gmail n=
on-google users are able to subscribe and post email from their non-gmail n=
on-google email accounts=2E Tor seems to work for the web interface=2E <br>=
<br>Will Google shut it down, will they cut us off, will they shut down non=
-google users? The same problem exists with other third-party hosts=2E<br><=
br>The moderation capabilities for Google Groups and <a href=3D"http://grou=
ps=2Eio">groups=2Eio</a> seem to be comparable=2E It seems more likely that=
Google Groups will be able to handle email delivery issues far better than=
a small resource-constrained operation like <a href=3D"http://groups=2Eio"=
>groups=2Eio</a>=2E ((During feedback for this draft, luke-jr indicates tha=
t Google Workspaces has been known to use blacklisted IPs for business emai=
l!))<br><br>On the other hand, <a href=3D"http://groups=2Eio">groups=2Eio</=
a> is a paid service and you get what you pay for=2E=2E=2E hopefully?<br><b=
r>Finally, another option is to do literally nothing=2E It's less work over=
all=2E Users can switch to forums or other websites, or private one-on-one =
communication=2E It would remove a point of semi-centralization from the bi=
tcoin ecosystem=2E It would hasten ossification, but on the other hand it w=
ould hasten ossification and this could be a negative too=2E Moderators wou=
ld be less of a target=2E<br><br>Unfortunately, by doing nothing, there wou=
ld be no more widely used group email communication system between bitcoin =
developers=2E Developers become less coordinated, mayhem and chaos as peopl=
e go to different communication platforms, a divided community is more vuln=
erable, etc=2E BIP1 and BIP2 would need to be revised for other venues=2E<b=
r><br>The main categories of what to move to are: web forums, mailing lists=
, and hybrids of those two options=2E Most everything is either self-hosted=
or you pay someone else to host it=2E It's kind of the same problem though=
=2E It largely depends on how good is the software and unfortunately runnin=
g your own MTA that forwards mail is not a good option=2E<br><br>Going forw=
ard<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>We'd like to invite feedbac=
k and proposals from the community, and see what options are available=2E O=
ne potential option is a migration to Google Groups, but we're open to idea=
s at this point=2E We apologize for any inconvenience this disruption has c=
aused=2E<br><br><br>Bitcoin-dev mailing list moderation team<br><br>Bryan B=
ishop<br>Ruben Somsen<br>Warren Togami<br>various others=2E<br><div><br></d=
iv></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></body></html>
------BQDK1ASZAIRVOA5XYH4910P5V8G5X9--
------8UJQP0482RZDPA3TR4L5C2I3AN4Q9E
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=Ns4E
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------8UJQP0482RZDPA3TR4L5C2I3AN4Q9E--
|