1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
|
Return-Path: <dscotese@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31405EAD
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 21 Jan 2016 04:35:43 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-oi0-f43.google.com (mail-oi0-f43.google.com
[209.85.218.43])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94DEE117
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 21 Jan 2016 04:35:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-oi0-f43.google.com with SMTP id k206so19724763oia.1
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:35:40 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject
:from:to:cc:content-type;
bh=lnx255wP//I9xGCKnTxbKiImzNbOB5Su5G9xHMS3BtA=;
b=AHwUyZ/nXo/ip3eC0glwe9TbJmEg40Xm9DC22i/q7CjAHOL5umVaW2lHNGj926kALh
KuYe3HVFs/PMRfbq9s/2f8Zg60Wu4F/saUzou9/Apv6LMHWLEtnP3Aq77NecSida+7Ti
pMEKwUU+FFlQEt33qqVjUvkbeZh1u3eRtG05yDkqeHGgZK7WekWTg08rWtth5uxsrsNs
t9i9T7/wHQe/BXoa0fPWero2H8cUN9AlnyyEYrHR/27I4utJybyFfsa8z1c53k/oSmUR
IqXX34yim3Yhs6M+oUHSjRH7FRFW7lOsg3BC0EXKPt6RrnxIPV20Ufdei+rLMJG2NCk2
C7Iw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date
:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type;
bh=lnx255wP//I9xGCKnTxbKiImzNbOB5Su5G9xHMS3BtA=;
b=WOMpp0RZSjLIVNifiAZfsMpFCqmCNOWn+cGY3lZMw9KA/uKAvzadsZ26KgBFDCb+RL
abXuqQ2mbQkGy+Ca8FWT/rOIHuX5RpWYhodKm0pFV1KRMKqzsYHRawhSOil73CE1n9uX
lNrvDCK+WGLEF1WbD8NE8+W3zrC3PLDMkm1p9Nq9014TAWOggUquEsGZ2pRYdp9/nD45
6QifICBDILcLBLYmZ7X5X2fK/6Q+tqkCDMsDdti3MEq02flpEgWS9sR5gDi9DQR3mVEI
y4JE/mQM8P8Nfv4aPzHLJVY8ri95JNczKm66FjNPD4Zv0t/hONNy3Fsg09deABZvWwLY
9UFQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORaH2IQ77HphMECSAe/K3YoJgkqpaIIv6gu5gDCE6iCDoPx2vJ5G7sXonqx8NpnCN1gHPMNQSlEjfsrmQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.202.90.134 with SMTP id o128mr14683595oib.15.1453350939631;
Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:35:39 -0800 (PST)
Sender: dscotese@gmail.com
Received: by 10.60.55.71 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:35:39 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <2998879.R5sQRbxZRv@1337h4x0r>
References: <87si1rycux.fsf@rustcorp.com.au>
<2998879.R5sQRbxZRv@1337h4x0r>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:35:39 -0800
X-Google-Sender-Auth: ixV_8NgrWUIl0ujvwfY1sCh1nds
Message-ID: <CAGLBAhd7DCcRiJ6SZvJ9hEBWvBnmgRWKLL00yxaeiGSEbNKNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Dave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com>
To: xor@freenetproject.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d426e7da8840529d0a22c
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham
version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 04:37:45 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Three Month bitcoin-dev Moderation Review
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 04:35:43 -0000
--001a113d426e7da8840529d0a22c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I agree with the prohibition of +1s. The core competency of those who
provide this list are moderation and technology, not managing a process
through which "involved people [indicate] whether they're for or against
it."
That is certainly an excellent function, but it can be offered by anyone
who wants to run a system for collecting and displaying those indications.
The email list itself is intended to be information rich, and such
"approval voting" is not information-rich enough in my view.
It is a shame that the moderated messages require so many steps to
retrieve. Is it possible to have the "downloadable version" from
https://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev-moderation/ for each month
contain the text of the moderated emails? They do contain the subjects, so
that helps.
On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 6:25 PM, xor--- via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Thursday, January 21, 2016 11:20:46 AM Rusty Russell via bitcoin-dev
> wrote:
> > So, what should moderation look like from now on?
>
> The original mail which announced moderation contains this rule:
> > - Generally discouraged: [...], +1s, [...]
>
> I assume "+1s" means statements such as "I agree with doing X".
>
> Any sane procedure of deciding something includes asking the involved
> people
> whether they're for or against it.
> If there are dozens of proposals on how to solve a particular technical
> problem, how else do you want to decide it than having a vote?
> It's very strange that this is not allowed - especially if we consider that
> the Bitcoin community is in a state of constant dissent currently.
> The effect is likely that you push the actual decision-making to IRC, which
> less people have access to (since it's difficult to bear the high traffic),
> and thus form some kind of "inner circle" - which makes decisions seem even
> more as if they're being dictated.
>
> So please consider allowing people to say whether they agree with something
> something or don't.
>
>
> Other than that, thanks for the good latency of moderation, I guess you're
> doing hard work there :)
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
--
I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a
techie?
I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com> and Meme Racing
<http://www.memeracing.net> (in alpha).
I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com> which
now accepts Bitcoin.
I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>.
"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi
Nakamoto
--001a113d426e7da8840529d0a22c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>I agree with the prohibition of +1s.=C2=A0 The c=
ore competency of those who provide this list are moderation and technology=
, not managing a process through which "involved people [indicate] whe=
ther they're for or against it."<br><br></div>That is certainly an=
excellent function, but it can be offered by anyone who wants to run a sys=
tem for collecting and displaying those indications.=C2=A0 The email list i=
tself is intended to be information rich, and such "approval voting&qu=
ot; is not information-rich enough in my view.<br><br></div>It is a shame t=
hat the moderated messages require so many steps to retrieve.=C2=A0 Is it p=
ossible to have the "downloadable version" from <a href=3D"https:=
//lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev-moderation/">https://lists.ozlabs.=
org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev-moderation/</a> for each month contain the text o=
f the moderated emails?=C2=A0 They do contain the subjects, so that helps.<=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, =
Jan 20, 2016 at 6:25 PM, xor--- via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitco=
in-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On Thursday, January 21, 2016 11:20:46 AM Ru=
sty Russell via bitcoin-dev wrote:<br>
> So, what should moderation look like from now on?<br>
<br>
</span>The original mail which announced moderation contains this rule:<br>
> - Generally discouraged: [...], +1s, [...]<br>
<br>
I assume "+1s" means statements such as "I agree with doing =
X".<br>
<br>
Any sane procedure of deciding something includes asking the involved peopl=
e<br>
whether they're for or against it.<br>
If there are dozens of proposals on how to solve a particular technical<br>
problem, how else do you want to decide it than having a vote?<br>
It's very strange that this is not allowed - especially if we consider =
that<br>
the Bitcoin community is in a state of constant dissent currently.<br>
The effect is likely that you push the actual decision-making to IRC, which=
<br>
less people have access to (since it's difficult to bear the high traff=
ic),<br>
and thus form some kind of "inner circle" - which makes decisions=
seem even<br>
more as if they're being dictated.<br>
<br>
So please consider allowing people to say whether they agree with something=
<br>
something or don't.<br>
<br>
<br>
Other than that, thanks for the good latency of moderation, I guess you'=
;re<br>
doing hard work there :)<br>_______________________________________________=
<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">I like to provide some work at no charge to pr=
ove my value. Do you need a techie?=C2=A0 <br>I own <a href=3D"http://www.l=
itmocracy.com" target=3D"_blank">Litmocracy</a> and <a href=3D"http://www.m=
emeracing.net" target=3D"_blank">Meme Racing</a> (in alpha). <br>I'm th=
e webmaster for <a href=3D"http://www.voluntaryist.com" target=3D"_blank">T=
he Voluntaryist</a> which now accepts Bitcoin.<br>I also code for <a href=
=3D"http://dollarvigilante.com/" target=3D"_blank">The Dollar Vigilante</a>=
.<br>"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" -=
Satoshi Nakamoto</div></div>
</div>
--001a113d426e7da8840529d0a22c--
|
